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Going tubeless
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=146997

Author:  suburbanreuben [ Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Going tubeless

What's involved?
I've just bought a bike and it has Stans No tubes rims. The rear has been run tubeless and has the special valve, rim tape and sticky jiz on the bead. The front has had an inner tube, but has the rim tape.
What else do I need? Special tyres? White sticky stuff?
Is it worth the hassle?Are there any benefits? All the tubeless tyres I've seen seem to have been heavier than the equivalent tyre and tube...
Ta!

Author:  dbmtb [ Mon Apr 25, 2011 9:58 pm ]
Post subject: 

Depends on the tyres if you don't buy UST tyres.

Have had varying degrees of success on various tyres (including some that "the internet" tells you are fine) so it really comes down to trial and error. Only way to be sure is to buy tyres that are "tubeless ready" and of course you will need the gunk to put in them and a compressor to shoot a lot of air in them at once to get them to seat properly....

Am running UST Nobby Nic/Racing Ralphs on my Stumpy FSR with UST 819 rims with no problems. Not a single puncture to date including hardcore rides in some very thorny/rocky terrain in Provence over the last 2 summers. But bejeesus they are sluggish on tarmac. Depends on your priorities really. You can get a lighter ride by going "urban tubeless" but it's a bit more hit and miss.

Author:  WD Pro [ Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:03 pm ]
Post subject: 

Some info from my experiences of setting them up here :

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewto ... 40b9badd6c

I think there may be a slightly better worded description on my airborne thread :D

WD :D

Author:  02gf74 [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:13 pm ]
Post subject: 

... or there is the "ghetto" way

my understanding is it wil work for non tubless tyre and on tubless rim.

apparently going tubless improves the ride so s worth doing for that alone, not ust for the wegh saving (note that to be 100% sure, you wold carry 2 spare inner tubes just in case).

Author:  orange71 [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:01 pm ]
Post subject: 

check youtube as there are loads of videos there on how to do it as well

Author:  Andy B [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 5:20 pm ]
Post subject: 

Benefits: Puncture resistance, lower tyre pressure for better grip, some set ups can weigh less than tubed set ups

Disadvantages: Can be a PITA to get tyre on rim & inflate, if a hole in the tyre doesn't seal you have to bang a tube in anyway, some set ups can weigh more than a tubed set up

I have a pair of Schwalbe tubeless Racing Ralph on Mavic Crossland wheels, so it is a proper tubeless set up. The tyres were damn tight on the rim, but they inflated fairly easily with a track pump & a bit of sweating.

Weight for my set up is a tad heavier than my tubed set up, but that's on different wheels, so no real comparison.

I've not had the tyres lose any (significant) amount of air over about a year, they were off the bike over winter & stayed inflated to ~15psi, just added another 10psi, slung em on the bike and job's a good 'un

Never had a puncture that I've known about, over last summer & a thorny ride on Sunday (FluffyChicken got 3 in the rear and 2 in the front within 100yds)

I like em, but I did get quite lucky getting them to fit & inflate 1st time, I've not had any downsides yet, might go ghetto on another of my bikes & see how that goes.

You may find this useful: http://www.mtbtechniques.co.uk/MaintananceGhetto.html

Author:  suburbanreuben [ Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:19 pm ]
Post subject: 

Hmmm...
Thanks for the replies; It's the having to carry inner tubes around too that gets me. :? :roll:
Is the puncture resistance due to the goo, like with Slime, or improved resistance in the tyre?
I think I might stay Luddite on this one.... :wink:

Author:  Andy R [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:04 am ]
Post subject: 

suburbanreuben wrote:
Hmmm...
Thanks for the replies; It's the having to carry inner tubes around too that gets me. :? :roll:
Is the puncture resistance due to the goo, like with Slime, or improved resistance in the tyre?
I think I might stay Luddite on this one.... :wink:


I always carry an inner tube in my Camelback, but then I do whether I'm riding with tubeless tyres or not, so there's no difference.
It's not really puncture resistance as such, but the fact that if a thorn stays in the tyre it largely self-seals anyway (aided by the sealant) and if whatever causes the puncture doesn't remain in the tyre then the sealant will usually seal the leak before significant pressure loss occurs.

I know I keep going on about this, but when I fitted a new tyre on the Kilauea that I have out in Greece, the inside of the old tyre was like a hedgehog (but on the inside - like the old police car joke) - there must have been thirty sizeable thorns embedded in it and yet all that I'd ever had to do was top up the pressure a few times.
They do have thorns like no other out there though and I was repairing punctures and replacing tubes on a daily basis - using the tubeless system has been an epiphany for me in Greece, and here I like the fact that I can use low pressures (20psi) in big (2.40") tyres and not worry so much about pinch punctures (or pretty much any punctures) though I expect that will come back to bite me on the ass.......

However, if you ever do have to fit a tube after running tubeless for any time, remember that you first have to check the inside of the tyre for any thorns that might be in there unnoticed . :wink:

Author:  orange71 [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:13 pm ]
Post subject: 

Andy B wrote:
The tyres were damn tight on the rim, but they inflated fairly easily with a track pump & a bit of sweating.


interested you managed oto do this as that was all holding me back as I have no access to a compressor, but I do have to a track pump.

And after 3 punctures last night I'm rearing to get on with it :lol:

Author:  suburbanreuben [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 12:29 pm ]
Post subject: 

So a track pump will do it?
What's the best goo to use?
I could yet be persuaded... :wink:

Author:  Andy B [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:12 pm ]
Post subject: 

Yes you can inflate tubeless with a track pump, some set ups are easier than others to inflate that way

A compressor is another way to inflate tubeless

It's all about getting air in fast

Some sealant manufactures say not to use CO2 to inflate their systems

I use Joe's No Flats as I couldn't get Stans sealant

Author:  Andy B [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:13 pm ]
Post subject: 

orange71 wrote:
Andy B wrote:
The tyres were damn tight on the rim, but they inflated fairly easily with a track pump & a bit of sweating.


interested you managed to do this as that was all holding me back as I have no access to a compressor, but I do have to a track pump.

And after 3 punctures last night I'm rearing to get on with it :lol:
How did I do it?

Pump hard and fast!

Soapy bubbles are a good lube to use to help the tyre seat quickly (see the link in one of my previous posts), I didn't have to use any, but most folks do have to

Author:  Andy R [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 2:26 pm ]
Post subject: 

Or use a CO² cartridge to seat the tyre initially, then either carefully crack a section of bead off and add the sealant or remove the valve core and add it that way.

Stan's and CO² don't mix, that's for sure - it makes the sealant coagulate in rubbery lumps :roll:.

Author:  orange71 [ Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:32 pm ]
Post subject: 

Right, encouraged by all of this talk of tubeless, I watched this, popped over to Leisure Lakes on the way home and bought two bottles of Stan's costing £4 in total, followed the video exactly except where he used a compressor I used a track pump I borrowed from next door and as this was on my 29er tyres, I used old 26" innertubes I had lying around.

20 mins later (literally!) I had 2 tubeless tyres 8)

Now, if they stay up (and I am sure they will) - that really was a piece of p*ss.

I can recommend the soapy water though, plenty of fairy liquid.

Job's a good'un 8) Total cost = £4 plus two old inner tubes.

Author:  Andy R [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:06 am ]
Post subject: 

orange71 wrote:

Now, if they stay up (and I am sure they will) - that really was a piece of p*ss.



Still up? What tyres are they BTW?

Author:  orange71 [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:41 am ]
Post subject: 

they'd gone down a bit overnight :roll: - combination of 2 things I think 1) soapy water still on the bead may be letting out some air 2) I used 1 small bottle per tyre, which is presumably ok for a 26er but might not be enough for a 29er, so I'll top it up. Apart from that though fine :D

Tyres are Michelin XC All Terrain 2.0 and are quite a tight fit (which might help in this process).

Author:  Andy R [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:38 am ]
Post subject: 

Did you do the shaking them about in all directions thing?

I've had excellent results from various Michelin tyres fitted ghetto tubeless, so they should be fine. I use about 60ml per wheel, whether 26" or 29" and then top them up with another 20ml after a month or so.

Author:  orange71 [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:37 am ]
Post subject: 

I think these bottles were 28ml each - so that'll be why.

Yes did the shake/swoosh thing :D

Author:  cchris2lou [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:45 pm ]
Post subject: 

I managed the ghetto system last october and need to do it again with new wheels . Not a single puncture since .
Only time it went down was when I sliced open a tyre wall and in very cold weather , I had to top it every 3 to 4 weeks in the winter .

Author:  REKIBorter [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:06 pm ]
Post subject: 

I had a go on a bike fitted up with tubeless tyres last night. Think I will stick with old fashoned tubes for the present time.

Author:  orange71 [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 5:53 pm ]
Post subject: 

how come?

Author:  REKIBorter [ Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:42 pm ]
Post subject: 

It was like riding on flat tyres. Yes loads of grip and probably low rolling resistance but it just felt really weard. I run my (tubed) tyres at around 30psi so get plenty of traction already.

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