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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:09 pm 
Old School Hero
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Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:27 pm
Posts: 209
Location: South Buckinghamshire
I rode a Sturmey Archer 8 speed hub geared bike last year, now that's a hub gear I wouldn't take off road in a hurry, even though the bike would handle general trail stuff the shifting wasn't quite what's needed, changing gear at a stand still is great for commuting etc., but full power shifting is what's needed off road :!:.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:35 pm
Posts: 265
soooooo......


The Alfine 11 arrived yesterday, but i've been away with work so not been able to weigh it or work out spoke lengths etc.

weight wise its spot on 1665g as per the previously posted link - so yes (surprise, surprise :roll: ) heavier than the shimano list.

Alfine 11 spoke calculations (some thing the internet seems to be lacking) are as follows:

Image
Image


A= 35
B= 42
D=93
S= 2.6
WL= 32.5
WR= 25.5

3cross pattern, 32 hole hub, 14mm nipples, DT Swiss Competition Stainless DB Spokes
on a mavic 717 black disc rim (542mm).....

I worked it out as 256mm L and 255mm R

couldnt get 255mm spoke so went for 256mm all round and will see how it goes.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:35 pm
Posts: 265
All built up
Image
Image
Image
Relatively straight a couple mm out here or there :oops: , but i've a mate with a truing stand so will go around there tomorrow.
just waiting the last little bit...
a Shimano centre lock adaptor, as the KCNC one i bought doesnt fit.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:35 pm
Posts: 265
soooo....
for a first atempt wheel build i thought i went pretty well. untill i took it to the bike shop for a final true as it turns out my mate is away at the mo - turns out i'd laced it up with the valve hole one space over (between crossed spokes), so had to delace and relace last night :oops:
any way, it should be ready to ride by the end of tomorrow - 1st ride on Sunday :D (may not have a rear brake though as i'm still waiting for the delivery of a centre lock converter).


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:02 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:22 pm
Posts: 2942
Location: Platsa, Messinias, Greece
That's a bit of a bummer, yessir - but at least you won't make the same mistake again :wink:

I had the second ride on the (at the moment) Alfine 8 equipped Hummingbird today, just scratching around in the hills and forests behind my place.

At the minute I've decided on -

Things that I like -

Quiet, smooth drivetrain.
No rear mech to get caught in the heather and branches.
Nice gearshifts (mostly).
Hub appears to be nice build quality, looks pretty enough too.
Plenty low enough bottom gear (with 22T sprocket).
Fast engagement (if a bit softer than I'm used to).
Spot on chainline with Middleburn Uno (47.5mm).
Ability to change gear while trackstanding.


Things that I don't like :evil: -

The extra weight (but no surprise there).
Shifter that works ok but looks cheapish (and isn't :roll:).
The worst change is 4th to 5th (which is the 1:1 ratio unfortunately).
Anti-rotation washers that wouldn't suit my dropouts - I had to get the welding gear out and add some custom lugs to them - 500% better!
Tacky looking acorn axle nuts - they had to go in favour of some red ano. ones.

However, having ridden singlespeeds almost exclusively for the last three years, I've reached the conclusion that I don't actually like climbing in low gears if I can possibly grunt my way up in my usual SS ratio, which is 32:20 - I found myself changing down and then almost immediately changing back up to 5th again (which is 32:22 in my case).
I also find technical stuff harder with gears at the minute, as unless in 5th, I don't seem to have the same awareness of how far a pedal stroke will take me and how it will get me up a step-up or boost me off a ledge.
I miss the "hard" engagement of a Hope Pro2 too...

Still, it was nice to have the luxury of a bail-out gear or two for the stuff that would otherwise have me walking, plus a higher gear for climbs that otherwise wouldn't let me be out of the saddle.
I noticed the weight especially when doing endo turns on downhill switchbacks - it just needs more forward weight transfer.

So, how long it'll be until the SS wheel finds itself back home again, who knows? I bought it and built the wheel to - a) amuse myself, b) scatch my IGH itch and c) to in some way future-proof my Hummingbird for when I become too old and frail to ride a singlespeed reasonably well (you think I'm joking?)

For me, a quality, light, three-speed hub would do the job - ratios of .66:1, 1:1 and 1.5:1. Use 1:1 90% of the time and a crawl gear and a tarmac cruising gear. Perfect !


Last edited by Andy R on Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:48 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:35 pm
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I also dont like the shifter - The 11 looks identical to the 8 speed shifter, but they work well and are functional (the 11 is teh correct way around). As i mentioned earlier i have the 8 speed hub on my commuter and i tend to get used to the reveresed shifting over the course of the week and then find i shift the wrong way at the weekend.

The jump from 4th-5th is always the worst feeling - its something, im afraid, that you need to live with and learn to 'power off' a bit when changing through thouse gears. I find that if i jump over 2 or 3 gears to get to fourth its alot smother - works well when starting off from light in 1st then jump up to 4th - not sure how good that would be off road. I guess its the main off road failing of the 8 speed hub. Shimano dont recomend the 8 speed for MTB use and i guess this is one of the reason why.

What colour anti rotation washers are you using? The Blue and Green ones (vertical dropouts) seem to be fine on my Hummingbird....

They also make /made a 3 speed Alfine - although i've only ever seen it speced on bikes and not in the shops.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:50 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:35 pm
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Image
Image

so its built, apart from the rear rotor and shortening the hoses... 32t front ring on at the mo - will then guage it tomorrow on the 1st ride how high to go...

frame. Singular Hummingbird
fork. Rock Shox Reba World Cup (TF tuned)
headset. Raceface Deus
stem. Thomson x4
Bar. Ritchey WCS carbon
Grips. Ritchey
seatpost. Thomson
Saddle. Fizix Gobi XM Wing Flex Kium
BB. Shimano XT
Cranks. Raceface Deus XC
Ring. Raceface 32t
Shifter. Alfine 11
Brakes Avid Elixir CR
Discs 160mm
Chain. Shimano XTR
Front Wheel Chris King ISO on Mavic 717
Rear Wheel Alfine 11 on Mavic 717
Tyres Spech Storm Control & Maxis Madusa
Pedals: Crank Bros Eggbeater sl

as for keeping the weight....
Image
nope, gained 1.68 Lbs :shock:

still, i'll loose about 1lb of that in the summer with a change of tyres....


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:51 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:35 pm
Posts: 265
been out on it (just on the roads) for an hour or so, and its great - just what i wanted.

In comparision to running 1x9 with a 11-32t cassette, and by feel, it seems to have the it has the low rage of some where around mid-high 22t and the high rage of the mid rage 44t ring.

There is noticable pause between 5th and 6th, just like the pause from 3rd to 4th on the 8 speed Alfine - This is due to the switching from 'underdrive' to direct drive i think.

Gear changes are incredibly smooth in comparison to the 8 speed - no crunching or noise, and are almost unnoticable (other than at the pedals).


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 12:22 pm
Posts: 2942
Location: Platsa, Messinias, Greece
skinheadjc wrote:
The jump from 4th-5th is always the worst feeling - its something, im afraid, that you need to live with and learn to 'power off' a bit when changing through thouse gears. I find that if i jump over 2 or 3 gears to get to fourth its alot smother - works well when starting off from light in 1st then jump up to 4th - not sure how good that would be off road. I guess its the main off road failing of the 8 speed hub. Shimano dont recomend the 8 speed for MTB use and i guess this is one of the reason why.

What colour anti rotation washers are you using? The Blue and Green ones (vertical dropouts) seem to be fine on my Hummingbird....

They also make /made a 3 speed Alfine - although i've only ever seen it speced on bikes and not in the shops.


I don't find the shifting from 4th to 5th to be a problem - just that it feels slightly less slick than the other changes, which I find to be pretty damn good, if I'm honest. As you say, it's because this is the point that the change from reduction to 1:1 occurs.
Actually, I understand that Shimano have given their tacit approval to use of the Alfine for mountain bike use, certainly the S501 roller clutch version anyway, hence the marketing of the likes of the Genesis IO ID.

The anti-rotation washers? Well, yes, the blue and green ones do work on the Hummingbird but I didn't think that they were that wonderful for the following reasons -

The dropouts don't actually have any parallel portion at all - you have a 10mm dia. section and then the front and rear faces are radial to this at an included angle of about 60°, so the "anti-rotation" washers don't actually locate by default - you have to rotate the whole hub anticlockwise (drive side) to locate them against the front of the dropout and then remember to tighten the NDS first, otherwise the act of tightening the axle nut on the DS tends to rotate the spindle to where the washers aren't in contact with the frame at all.
Anyway, I used the black and grey versions, ground the lugs off and welded on new ones which a) fit the dropouts perfectly and b) position the cable attachment exactly where I want it. They also have the advantages of taking up the clearance between the 10mm dia dropout and the 3/8th dia axle, spreading the loads over the whole forward face of the dropouts and reliably and accurately self locating.

Necessary? Probably not, but they don't offend my engineer's sensibilities as much . :wink:

I probably notice the weight change even more than you, coming from a singlespeed setup - although it's actually the CoG change that's most noticeable to me. I think the 3 speed hub is the Nexus, but it has an axle end type cable connection which I reckon would last about 10 minutes, even in my hands..... :roll:

Anyway, as you can see, my Hummingbird is considerably less salubrious than yours, being an odd mix of Hope, CK, Middleburn, SKF, Magura, Easton, Thomson, SKF, Salsa and Sun-Ringle. A bit of a dog's dinner of whatever stuff I had lying around, I suppose.

A good match for me then

:roll:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:56 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 2:35 pm
Posts: 265
looks good :D
love teh additional work to the anti rotation washers.
what chain ring and sprocket size are you using?

i'm running 32 and 18 at the mo.....


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