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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:24 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:30 pm
Posts: 566
Location: Prague
This 1998 date is such a provocative thing
It suggests as if something really major happened there..
Whenever there is such exact date one expects things like 9/11, Moonlanding, end of WW, discovery of America..
But here.. absolutely nothing. Totally random.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:52 pm 
retrobike rider
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CAPIN wrote:
This 1998 date is such a provocative thing
It suggests as if something really major happened there..
Whenever there is such exact date one expects things like 9/11, Moonlanding, end of WW, discovery of America..
But here.. absolutely nothing. Totally random.


Totally random decided many moons ago based on the users and more importantly the people who run the show and has been in use for a long time now.
Hence the split gets put there. It's easier to split on a date that already had the split in place than change everything.

Anyway end of the 90's is when MTB hit a black period, falling sales, companies folding, patents ending, cheap Alu bike flooding in even more so and that 9 speed stuff, grrr. ;)


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:05 pm 
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I know , with my post count i wouldnt have balls to start questioning the main dogmas of our cult on my own :lol:
Its just these recent changes gave a tiny opportunity to be little subversive.
Just a little. Sorry about that :D


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 9:30 pm 
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Posts: 1193
Location: Konada
Charlieboy28 wrote:
its lost something that was lovely and that brought me here and kept me here in the first place, when i posted a question on the forum it was not because it was necessarily retro it was becuase the answer and opinion i could expect was the one i wanted from peers i respected, from guys who ride then and ride now, who had both retro and modern and cycled throughout the time etc...


....


Word. That's exactly one of the reasons I was an avid user of this site, and held it up as an example to the local mountain bike site as a template for communal spirit (without succes I might add. Danes will be Danes.) However, since the banishment of 98 ->, which included two of my main rides from 2000 (though still old frames, titanium, of respectable lineage etc.), to the bottom of the forum listing, coupled with the puritan bordering on faschist ideals towards the early/glory days, I no longer feel a part of the community. Thus the sense of "peers" is lost, and I haven't been active for some time now and probably won't be again. Some of the attitudes strike me as so ridiculous, close-minded and hostile now, that I also have lost respect for the purveyors of those attitudes. Instead of cultivating and nurturing a healthy interest in old bikes, this will only succeed in turning those with an interest - but lack of history - away by alienating them. So retrobike can become elitist and cliquey much like another site that has been mentioned time again for being elitist and cliquey and shitting all over RB for being common. Take a look in the mirror. The sense of community may not have been lost (though for some), but is at the very least split. I hope I'm wrong, but I fail to see how you can avoid becoming a group of decaying dinosaurs if you don't welcome some new blood and, with an open mind, keep a sense of history alive so modern riders might appreciate where and how it all started. Let's face it, mountain biking has evolved in the last 25 years and those evolutionary changes are here to stay. You can shun people who won't care anyway, or open your minds so those same people will care and you can earn their respect for your knowledge and roots. It sucks to be acculturated, but you adapt and survive or risk looking like a grumpy old fool (the ones you shunned back in 1992 because they hated your "alternative lifestyle.")

[edit] And here comes the shitstorm....


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:59 pm 
retrobike rider
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Kona Paul, what are they suppose to do.
The modern bikes and especially modern sales have rapidly increased, certainly within the time I've been here.
When I first came it was old bikes and old bike chat with the odd dribs and drabs of modern bikes or modern talk. This modern side then increased and the for sale and Chat section started to have a lot more modern talk as it increased it drifted more and more out off topic area which was there for modern talk and other things.
It's not what the site was or what I believed the site to be when I joined.

As mentioned the 1997 split had already been created I think around a year ago for readers bikes. So that split was easy to decide on for the current setup.

I have no more input than you do and had nothing towards this current setup, but I do like it. I personally class my 1997 bike as my modern bike.

If you can think of a way they can keep to the owners thinking of 'RetroBike' while pleasing the circa 2000 members, but preferably keeping modern bike talk to a minimum and away from the main sections, while still bringing in money for the site (come on it's a business with all the sponsorship, adverts etc..) then I'm sure they will listen and take ideas.

I'm just saying for me it's working better than before.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:41 pm 
North Wales AEC / OWMTBC 2010 Champion
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Kona Paul wrote:
Charlieboy28 wrote:
its lost something that was lovely and that brought me here and kept me here in the first place, when i posted a question on the forum it was not because it was necessarily retro it was becuase the answer and opinion i could expect was the one i wanted from peers i respected, from guys who ride then and ride now, who had both retro and modern and cycled throughout the time etc...


....


Word. That's exactly one of the reasons I was an avid user of this site, and held it up as an example to the local mountain bike site as a template for communal spirit (without succes I might add. Danes will be Danes.) However, since the banishment of 98 ->, which included two of my main rides from 2000 (though still old frames, titanium, of respectable lineage etc.), to the bottom of the forum listing, coupled with the puritan bordering on faschist ideals towards the early/glory days, I no longer feel a part of the community. Thus the sense of "peers" is lost, and I haven't been active for some time now and probably won't be again. Some of the attitudes strike me as so ridiculous, close-minded and hostile now, that I also have lost respect for the purveyors of those attitudes. Instead of cultivating and nurturing a healthy interest in old bikes, this will only succeed in turning those with an interest - but lack of history - away by alienating them. So retrobike can become elitist and cliquey much like another site that has been mentioned time again for being elitist and cliquey and shitting all over RB for being common. Take a look in the mirror. The sense of community may not have been lost (though for some), but is at the very least split. I hope I'm wrong, but I fail to see how you can avoid becoming a group of decaying dinosaurs if you don't welcome some new blood and, with an open mind, keep a sense of history alive so modern riders might appreciate where and how it all started. Let's face it, mountain biking has evolved in the last 25 years and those evolutionary changes are here to stay. You can shun people who won't care anyway, or open your minds so those same people will care and you can earn their respect for your knowledge and roots. It sucks to be acculturated, but you adapt and survive or risk looking like a grumpy old fool (the ones you shunned back in 1992 because they hated your "alternative lifestyle.")

[edit] And here comes the shitstorm....


The thing is most things late 90's early 00's was always encouraged or moved to off-topic so all that has changed is that there is a dedicated section for something that was once moved alongside threads such as "what my dog ate"

I understand the feeling of being moved to the bottom of the forum but i'm sure its not meant to mean anything. Maybe the option could be to have one heading for MTB Chat that splits into sub forums when opened?

I also disagree that there is an elitist or purist attitude building on the forum, there have been so many new members with an interest in late 90's early 00's that is waranted it's own forum instead of offtopic so if anything it has become more inclusive.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:54 pm
Posts: 1541
Ahhh...silly me there was I thinking BOTM meant Bike of the Month....

I feel rather stupid now as its obviously Bitch of the Month.

My bad !


Isn't it ironic that on a forum specific to one subject..ie the enjoyment of Bicycles, so much anger and venom can be spat by people all purporting to be said enjoyers...


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 9:58 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:35 pm
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FluffyChicken wrote:
Personally I'm like the site as it is now with all the modern stuff generally being kept away.
As for turn of the century stuff. Well if you don't visit and don't use it then don't blame anyone for it downfall. Use it or loose it.

I do not see 1998+ as a place to put modern stuff, just a place for the newerschoolsretrokids to chat and talk, shame it was taken as a license to be STW. (not that I actually know what STW is like :P )

For me modern stuff (can let consumables slide ;)) should still go in off topic as it's well and truly off topic for this site :lol:


This!

This is retrobike, STW is where we can all go to look at this years/last years biggest and best.

I saw 98+ as being slightly younger retrobikes. For interesting stuff, not the type of thing you will necessarily see at any given trail centre on any given sunday.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:34 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 9:37 am
Posts: 4916
I really don't see that what goes in the 1998> section is any worse than what goes in the <1998 sections.

A whole heap of uninteresting, mass-produced, poorly spec'd, thoughtlessly built bikes reside happily alongside the stuff worth logging in for. But, on the whole, they get accepted because they are old. Some of these also get entered in to BoTM.

Frankly, the incessant whining is way more tedious than any of the bikes that I see on here; irrespective of their 'quality' or age.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:14 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:30 pm
Posts: 566
Location: Prague
:shock:


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