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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:59 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:17 am
Posts: 2020
Location: Chesterfield
jonboy wrote:
d8mok wrote:
How “modern” are we talking? Ie Not year but what bikes ?

What kind of riding and what skill level?


Thanks everyone for comments so far! :D What should be a really exciting opportunity to treat myself to a new bike has turned into an exercise of indecision and self torture. I feel like what ever I choose it's going to be an expensive mistake.

I mean 'Modern', as in the latest model - a 160mm F / 140mm R travel, 27.5" wheel bike.

My riding is probably going to be a mix of short blasts round the local woods, a few trips to the local-ish trail centre, and less frequently some longer trail rides.

My skill level is currently 'a little bit rusty', but I used to race DH back in the day and still count myself has having a good skill level despite the lack of recent riding. Now my kids are riding I am finding reasons to ride again myself.


Did you ride a SB140? As that was you wanted before I think. As that’s a modern geo bike.

All the mainstream stuff isn’t that radical in terms of length or anything. It’s brands like yeti , evil , Santa Cruz , kingdom , pole etc that are pushing the limits.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:06 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:31 pm
Posts: 397
Location: Leeds
d8mok wrote:

Did you ride a SB140? As that was you wanted before I think. As that’s a modern geo bike.

All the mainstream stuff isn’t that radical in terms of length or anything. It’s brands like yeti , evil , Santa Cruz , kingdom , pole etc that are pushing the limits.



Yes, it was the SB140 I rode. I'm 6'0" so in theory not far off the middle of the suggested large size range, and 1" taller than the max for the Medium. I'm nervous that after a few rides the medium could feel a bit cramped, particularly on longer rides.

My latest thinking is the large won't be too large, but medium could be a bit small. But can should I ignore what felt right on a test ride? :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:12 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:17 am
Posts: 2020
Location: Chesterfield
At 5.11 I’d be buying a large.

Buy the large and get used to it would be my advice.

I’m riding a medium insurgent which is technically my correct size but after riding my large Vendetta it feels too short.

You will get used to it.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:56 am 
Gold Trader
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Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:30 pm
Posts: 17072
Location: Surrey
I've recently gone to 29er. Initially I bought a felt carbon hardtail in medium, short travel (120mm?) Sids and wide bars, way wider than anything I've had before, but as the mandatorily says, it is the way.

Felt comfortable on it straight away but the more I rode it, the more I felt I was pushing myself off the rear of the saddle I.e. needed a bigger frame despite generally being comfortable on it.

I bought a large ti 29er frame, the initial plan was to use everything from the felt, but I ended up just using the bars and cranks. Initially fitted some 120mm rebas bit then replaced with some 140mm revs. I haven't felt better on a bike in years, using a shorter stem than on the felt too.

I'm 5ft11 and having had medium and large frames to compare, the large is the better fit for me.

It actually had me questioning whether riding an 18 inch frame retro steed was the right size, and have since replaced a few retro frames with larger ones and haven't had an regrets there either.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:20 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 8:22 pm
Posts: 1190
Location: Malton, North Yorkshire
With modern geometry you sit 'in' the bike , not 'on" it, so longer frames, shorter stems and wider bars all contribute to the bike 'wrapping' around you, so definately with Ishaw on this one. I sized up with my 160mm travel enduro and the confidence you get from sitting 'in" really makes you want to push a little harder on your limits.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 8:29 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:43 pm
Posts: 987
Location: Cambridgeshire - flatlands (the horror, the horror)
well....I started mountain biking in the mid-80s. After a while, at 5-7 with a 31 inside leg, I settled on 15-16 inch Marins and Oranges. Had a ball. Thousands and thousands of off road miles. Left the South Downs in 2006 and came to Cambridge and had children. I got back into it all when my son became 10 and I built him a 9kg XC bike. And I started building again. Now, I ride a Large 2016 Ragley mmmBop, a Medium 2019 Transition Sentinel and a 16.5 Stanton 2020 switch9er Ti. The thing is, the 2020 Stanton is the same size as the 2016 LARGE mmmBop - I am 5-7 and fit comfortably and efficiently on the largest mmmBop frame which Ragley made in 2016 - which is now the same geometry as their 2020 medium. You would need a Large in the 2020 mmmBop.

The mmmBop is radical geometry - 64 head angle, short stays, 170 travel. The Sentinel is HUUUGE beside my old 90s Oranges, but the bars-saddle-bb triangle is the same. But you sit BETWEEN the wheels rather than over them. Yakboy is exactly right on that - you sit IN the bike not ON the bike. I encouraged an old friend on old bikes to have a day on one of mine - and the first thing he said was ' grief there's all thay wheel out way in front of you...' but then proceeded to slaughter the singletrack we were doing and paste the climbs. And then he got back onto his own bike and said '...where has the front wheel gone??!??...'. The difference is stark, and when you look at 64 head angle 27.5 or 29 long travel bikes and compare them with 69 degree 26 inch bikes you can see why modern bikes are safer, faster and more capable. Can they climb? Yes. On the Sentinel you just sit there and spin, and with that steep seat angle it will go up anything.

Reach is one of the most important measurements - bb vertical line to centre of head tube. Get that too short and as Ishaw says, nothing you can do will preserve the quality of the geometry and get you on the right position. And the 64-65 head angle and short offset forks go with 35mm stems. Sizing the stem above this to accommodate a smaller frame is a big no-no since it defeats the point of the geometry and wrecks the traction. It takes a while to settle into the feel of modern geometry, but going with something which has the same feel as your older bikes may put you on a bike which is too small.

Bikes are BIG these days. And I know exactly why when I am hooning down something which I would NEVER have ridden on my older bikes. I loved my Oranges. But I really really love my modern bikes....and have even more of a ball than I had in the 90s.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:09 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:31 pm
Posts: 397
Location: Leeds
Thanks guys for your comments.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:17 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:17 am
Posts: 2020
Location: Chesterfield
Which version you going for? None of the factory builds are ideal for me

I’m gonna buy a frame only when I do. Then do a 12 speed XTR build, Hope brakes , with Lyrik and carbon wheels.

It’s got a lot to live upto but I think it will.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 12:06 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:13 pm
Posts: 11890
Location: Skipton
jonboy wrote:
d8mok wrote:

Did you ride a SB140? As that was you wanted before I think. As that’s a modern geo bike.

All the mainstream stuff isn’t that radical in terms of length or anything. It’s brands like yeti , evil , Santa Cruz , kingdom , pole etc that are pushing the limits.



Yes, it was the SB140 I rode. I'm 6'0" so in theory not far off the middle of the suggested large size range, and 1" taller than the max for the Medium. I'm nervous that after a few rides the medium could feel a bit cramped, particularly on longer rides.

My latest thinking is the large won't be too large, but medium could be a bit small. But can should I ignore what felt right on a test ride? :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:



At 6'0" I'd be on a large, no doubt about it. I'm 6'2" and spent years trying to convince myself large fitted me but since I embraced the fact I need XL bikes I've never been happier cycling.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:05 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
King of the Skip Monkeys

Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:34 pm
Posts: 33012
I heve to do this, its the law

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