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 Post subject: New bike curious...
PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 3:39 pm 
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Okay, when I say new, I mean less than 10 years old.

I have a 2007 stumpjumper FSR, about 120mm front and rear, works fine. Feels like a sofa compared to my old bikes, which is part of the problem... I had a 1997 LTS that had similar comfort, but felt more 'tight'. Maybe I'm just not used to modern full sus? Assuming no racing and no 'Gnar' just trips around the local area (some rooty singletrack, hence the suspension - I like to be comfy).

Would more modern bikes gain me much, especially wrt to efficiency, climbing etc? We all know that full sus has moved on immeasurably since the early 90s, but what about since 2007?

FYI, the bike is 26", 1x10 (46t cassette) XT, and decent forks & wheels (DT Swiss) and brakes (Hope). I'm happy with most of the kit on it, so wouldn't really be looking for a whole bike.


Thoughts? I'm genuinely clueless here.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:04 am 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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IMO the biggest change since 2007 has been geometry. Back then bikes were not a million miles away from proper retro but things have really moved on in the last 5 years. If modern geometry is better or not will be a personal choice but I like it. From my experience bikes seem to fit better now and it has made me realise I really used to squeeze myself on to smaller bikes than I should.

Wheels wise you want to go 29er to notice the biggest change. I'm a fully paid up convert to wagon wheels and wouldn't be without one. 650b is fun but when I had both I found that 29" was better 90% of the time even though the 10% was a great laugh. No point in looking at 26" if you want a change as the last of them won't be a great leap forward over your FSR.

The higher end suspension has become much, much better than the 2007 kit but how much you'll notice will come down to budget. Modern RS Pikes have been the benchmark since 2014 or so and are ace but I just changed to some 2018 Fox 36 and they have moved the game on again. Lower end gear will be better than you are used to but not night and day.

Groupset wise you will notice less difference. Everything is 1x now but aside from more gears out back and less up front I don't really think shifting performance has improved a great deal. I still think my 2007ish Rapid Rise XTR kit was the best performing gear set I've had. Brakes are better with even the cheaper Shimano stuff working fantastically.

My advice would be to look at a full suss 29er with around 120mm travel if not a little more. Look for something no older than 3 years or so. What's your budget?


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 Post subject: Re: New bike curious...
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:11 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:27 pm
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Just to add to that - 27.5+ is worth a try (before you buy) if you are into your hardtails/climbing.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:32 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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brocklanders023 wrote:
IMO the biggest change since 2007 has been geometry. Back then bikes were not a million miles away from proper retro but things have really moved on in the last 5 years. If modern geometry is better or not will be a personal choice but I like it. From my experience bikes seem to fit better now and it has made me realise I really used to squeeze myself on to smaller bikes than I should.



The evolution is down to sector refinement of things like Trail and Enduro. Trail has become the catchall segment of the industry that XC was. XC is now more niche. On a trail bike you can do XC (just not as efficiently) or ride enduro (you just need to be a bit more careful). I still find XC suits me for the majority of my riding but I have a trail bike too. Enduro is like DH lite and way beyond what I need and regularly ride. Trail and Enduro are generally getting longer and slacker and diverging away from XC. XC is still quite steep and short and fairly short in travel too.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:53 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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Avoid XC then! :shock: :wink: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:01 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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brocklanders023 wrote:
Avoid XC then! :shock: :wink: :lol:


It's certainly not suited to the one bike for all situations crowd that for sure. One of the best value Trail bikes are the Calibre Bossnut and BBB from go outdoors, apart from a couple of compromises (lack of a lockout rear shock on the BBB) they generally can't be beaten for the money.


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 Post subject: Re: New bike curious...
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:55 pm 
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Modern bikes ride better in terms of suspension performance. The longer wheelbases make a massive difference. When it comes to enjoyment it isn't so clear cut. I love my 2 Whytes from 2004 but then they are unique in design having linkage front suspension and virtual pivot point rear. Were they the first VPP? I've no idea but they were well ahead of the curve. I rode a single pivot 1997 Marin Rift Zone until 2015 and it was still a great trail bike. I also had an Orange Sub 5, the first of the 5s and it was still a hooligan tool. Maybe it comes down to soul vs competence.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:20 am 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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Being a massive creature of habit puts me in a decent position to compare similar bikes over the years I think. Amongst others I have had some form of Orange full suss since 2007:

2006 5.
2010 5.
2014 5 29.
2017 Segment.

First two 26", last two 29". The 5's were not all that different really, no great advancement. The 5 29 was probably more of the same except with bigger wheels. I put Pikes on that which made a big difference over the stock RS Sektors which were no better than the forks on the 2006/10 bikes and worse than the DT Swiss I had put on the 2010. Segment was the game changer for me as it was much longer, lower and wider. I've played around with stems + bars and have managed to get a bike that perfectly fits me and is extremely comfortable to ride. I had a go on my old 2010 as I sold it to a mate and it felt cramped and rough in comparison.

Only problem is that the Segment has made most older bikes feel odd to me. I picked up a mint 2007 Clockwork which was a beauty but it felt all wrong to ride so I had to let it go. The only mtb that felt decent was the 2016 P7 I had for a while so I guess I'm stuck with modern bikes now although I'm in no rush to change what I have.


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 Post subject: Re: New bike curious...
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:10 pm 
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Thanks for all the input guys. I've been reading and thinking.

Went for a ride on the FSR on wednesday, going out on a (retro) hardtail tomorrow.

The FSR is comfy, no doubt, but I'm wondering that if with the riding that I actually do, I may be better off with a nice springy steel hardtail, and just MTFU.

To answer a few questions, the running gear is modernish. 11-46 cassette, new XT clutch mech, XT 10 speed shifters and NW chainring. I'd be happy to keep these. Brakes are hope mono minis and are also fine. the forks are DT swiss exm130, and IMO work exceedingly well. The rear shock was upgraded last year to a fox CTD. The wheels and tyres are... beefy. Aimed more at enduro than XC, and I'm pretty sure these aren't helping.

The other issue is budget; there isn't one, and not in a 'money no object' type way!

I'm tempted to pick up a nice old 26" frame (cotic soul or similar), and some lighter wheels & tyres. There's a couple hundred £££ straight away. Going to bigger wheels means a lot more £££ as I'd need a fork too. At that point, i'm into new bike territory, and more £££...

First world problems, eh? :)


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:08 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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Why not look out for one of the Cotic Bfe's with modern geometry but 26" wheels? Or a new one in the sale....

https://www.cotic.co.uk/product/BFe26


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