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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:29 pm 
BoTY & PoTM Winner
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jimo746 wrote:
sinnerman wrote:
Is this the one fattiman was selling on here, that ended up on gumtree for £300 ono.


That's the one, I think the rusty pile of tubes cost me about £120 in the end :lol:
It needs extensive work, but I'm a sucker for a basket case sometimes :facepalm:
It's currently hanging in the shed awaiting the day I grow the balls to take the plunge and get something done with it, although to my untrained eye it might be that the frame lugs end up being the only original part of the frame to be saved :lol:

Don't hold your breath.....


Im glad you got it for a Fair price in the end, and its in safe hands at last....!


Last edited by sinnerman on Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:31 pm 
BoTY & PoTM Winner
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Andy T wrote:
[quote But the fun question here is, what came first, the chicken or the egg....?


Biologically speaking, there were eggs long before Chickens.......... :wink:

There were also Tushinghams and potential Tushinghham Works Replica's before there were Orange MTBs of any description or flavour of builder...... :D

I've emailed the seller for additional photos of the bike, will post them up If I receive any....[/quote]






Did you get any response ref additional info,... Pics, a frame number would be good to date it..?


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:40 pm 
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[quote
Did you get any response ref additional info,... Pics, a frame number would be good to date it..?[/quote]

No mate, sadly nothing back from the seller as of this evening.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:51 pm 
BoTY & PoTM Winner
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Andy T wrote:
[quote
Did you get any response ref additional info,... Pics, a frame number would be good to date it..?


No mate, sadly nothing back from the seller as of this evening.[/quote]




Thats a same, i keep looking at the TWR, The Dave Yates, and The Orange formula, all fabricated by Dave Yates.

The theory of all involved, closing ranks and having no comment, really does make me ponder on WHY.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:19 pm 
BoTY & PoTM Winner
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OK, a bit more on this, from Lester

"The very first Fomula’s were made by Dave Yates, but that was only for a short time before we went to Paul Donohue. We probably had 2 bikes from Dave before getting about 6 from Donohue. It was a struggle getting what we wanted weight wise, the bikes were a mixture of Reynolds road bike tubes, using 753 where we could.
Then in 89 Columbus launched their max tubing which we got. I can’t remember whether there was max chainstay, and seatstays, I think they didn’t but Steve would remember. Anyway Steve sourced some cromoly 4130 and shaped his own seatstays and chainstays which were incredibly light. That’s when the lighter Formula frames started and monostays appear.
The bike in the picture is a Donohue built frame made before Columbus tubing was used."

Care of Micheal Bonney (Orange).


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:48 pm 
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[quote="sinnerman"

That's very true, my head was thinking more of, the "Tushingham Works Replica" or the "Dave Yates" version of it.[/quote]

I've emailed Dave Yates, to ask about "Eggs and Chickens :wink: "
Hopefully he will get back to me......

Andy

Edit, I need to go and see Kevin Winters this week, I'll have a chat with him about it also...


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:08 pm 
BoTY & PoTM Winner
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Andy T wrote:
[quote="sinnerman"

That's very true, my head was thinking more of, the "Tushingham Works Replica" or the "Dave Yates" version of it.


I've emailed Dave Yates, to ask about "Eggs and Chickens :wink: "
Hopefully he will get back to me......

Andy

Edit, I need to go and see Kevin Winters this week, I'll have a chat with him about it also...[/quote]

Im aware he worked with Donovan, i think Adrian garnished that from him when he refinished his Formula, this whole part of the early history i find fascinating.

Any additional info is greatly appreciated.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:17 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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Great work all, really interesting. So does that mean the Wade built frames were actually built by someone else except the chain/seat stays?


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:36 pm 
BoTY & PoTM Winner
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brocklanders023 wrote:
Great work all, really interesting. So does that mean the Wade built frames were actually built by someone else except the chain/seat stays?


I think that really might be a few beers round the camp fire to ponder on.

Every thing i have seen and read (which really isnt a lot) Wade is credited with building the frames. I couldn't suggest for one minute that he wasn't capable, of course he was.

But through there own volition they made no more than 8 or 9.

A good frame builder would take 60 to 80 hours to fabricate 1 from scratch, tools, equipment, workshop, £1000s of pounds worth of files etc etc etc. The tubing required, Jigs etc.

Its not to say it wasnt possible, its not to say it couldnt be done in a shed of course it could. With there contacts in the trade whos to say he didnt build them in anothers workshop, Just like Chris Chance is doing now (supposedly).

The truth is we will never know for sure, there was a massive emphasis placed on British built Quality at the time, theirs no doubt others frowned upon the clever marketing tactics used at the time, the Overburys advert needs no words to demonstrate that.

They certainly had enough access to small relatively unknown frame builders at the time to knock up less than ten frames for a race team/ flagship marketing, and there was no need to invest all the money to do it, but the market at the time certainly demanded a show of quality and certainly expected Such a high price point bike to be completely handbuilt and in the UK, and from a company as fast growing as Orange. especially when compared to boutique frame builders like, ROBERTS, OVERYBURYS, YATES.

I would imagine there was certainly a level of pressure for them as owners of the company to be able to demonstrate there skill to the consumers. to add weight to the brand, when comparing at the top end with others offerings.

The old romantic in me wants to believe he built them all of course, and on a MONDAY, WEDNESDAY, AND FRIDAY, i do.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:32 pm 
BoTY & PoTM Winner
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Perhaps the digging is getting us a little closer.


The picture below Shows one of the company's founders Steve Wade, proudly showing off one of the original Formulas that he handbuilt for himself to his own demanding specifications. They were never intended for sale, they were simply the best of the best and issued only to a select group of Team riders - each one to the riders specification and tuned to suit their 'formula'.


Attachments:
Steve Wade- Orange Formula..jpg
Steve Wade- Orange Formula..jpg [ 328.24 KiB | Viewed 238 times ]
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