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 Post subject: Re: Your views, please
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:43 am 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:16 pm
Posts: 5156
Mike Muz 67 wrote:
Hi folks,

I don't know why, but there seems to be a few people here who like to ride their bikes, and a lot more that don't seemingly want to.

So I ask you for your views.

What would you like to see, regarding riding your retro bikes, that would persuade you to join me and a few regulars on some rides?

Over to you

Mike


Hey Mike, kudos for asking us for feedback. That's a brave internet move. Here's some points to consider and I'd be happy to chat about these on or offline.

- Cassidy touches on a key point. Cycling is a polar opposite hobby and sport: solo or packs. I prefer cycling solo. I like to spend that time on the bike with just me for company. I do like riding with others but it's the exception, not the rule. So if it's an exception, it has to be an exceptional ride.

- This leads me to the pull; what's in it for me? What's it in it for the folks you'd like to attract to the rides? Everyone has their own motivations and you can't please everyone all of the time. In this case, you've got the South Downs on your doorstep - that's an incredible terrain attraction. But is that enough for everyone? Just reading the thread so far, you can see everyone has their own idea of what would make a compelling ride. So, you could think about what's most attractive and how much time or help you'd need to achieve that.

- Distance and travelling. Not the ride itself - that's in your control - but getting to the ride. Personally, 2 hours travelling is the maximum I'll commit to unless it's weekend away. Add in people who don't have a car (like me) then that really limits the catchment area. I'd kill to get to your neck of the woods - and I can do it but it's a massive ball-ache and a big reason why I don't join these rides. Getting there ok, but a 2 plus hour slog back on public transport? At the weekend? Forget it. Time is precious and something we can't buy or get back, so it's back to point 1 and it being exceptional - what's the pull? So, perhaps think about how to attract the real local folk as a solid basis. This platform is pretty much dead - just look at the place and this sub-forum - so what another tools or local outlets and resources could you use to attract like-minded folk?

- Personality and persona. Not everyone likes what they see, read or hear. Flippant comments, out of frustration, over the lack of engagement. Perceptions over the ride, thanks to your race-tuned machines and style, causes the reader to create their own impression of you (and me, and everyone here). This can impact impressions about the rides (evident on this thread). Whether we like it or not it impacts engagement. Locally, who could you collaborate with, share ideas and team together to achieve the goals you have?


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:48 pm 
Old School Hero
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Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:25 pm
Posts: 249
CassidyAce wrote:
Mike Muz 67 wrote:
I don't know why, but there seems to be a few people here who like to ride their bikes, and a lot more that don't seemingly want to.


This comment really caught my attention and stuck in my mind. I think it's because the sense of disappointment is palpable and, secondly, because I really like to ride my bikes and don't care too much about some of the stuff that other people seem passionate about. As it is, I had a great ride today: 23 miles, just under two hours, average speed of 12 mph - had to slow down for dog walkers quite often but conditions were excellent otherwise. Nothing technical, just cross-country from road to hard pack to stony stuff. How does that stack up against your rides?
Attachment:
704TX-22Apr18b.jpg


However, all the working week I'm surrounded by people and I have a busy family life, so cycling is really my peace and quiet 'me time'. I'm not saying that I would never meet up, though, and from your write-up it looks like you had a really good ride today, so you've sparked my curiosity. I guess, then, the reports are the best adverts. (On the other hand, I would have had to get up early and do four hours of motorway driving and that's going to be grim any day of the week. :( )



Hi Cassidy Ace

The ride we did on Sunday was probably a bit longer than yours although I don't know how long as I'm not really into recording distances and times etc. It was probably longer than we would have normally done for a retro ride mainly due to the fact that it was only me and Mike and he knew I wouldn't mind, and the fact that it was the best day of the year so far weather wise.

Normally I think the distances we have done on some of the rides would be comparable to what you did, generally I suppose we go as far as the least fittest person wants to go. On the handful of rides that I've organised I've always tried to plan an emergency route back so if anyone is getting tired we can head back to the start and be there within a reasonable distance/time. At the same time if we're getting near the end of the ride and everyone is still keen to do more riding I might have an extra loop in my mind that we could ride to keep everyone happy and make sure they get their moneys worth for the distance they've had to travel to get there in the first place.

None of the rides are some kind of challenge where you have to complete the distance it's just a chance for a social and see what bikes everyone has brought along. Having said all this four hours of motorway driving to get there is excessive, especially to go riding with some blokes you've never met!


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 Post subject: Re: Your views, please
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 6:13 pm 
Old School Hero
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Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:25 pm
Posts: 249
al-onestare wrote:
Mike Muz 67 wrote:
Hi folks,

I don't know why, but there seems to be a few people here who like to ride their bikes, and a lot more that don't seemingly want to.

So I ask you for your views.

What would you like to see, regarding riding your retro bikes, that would persuade you to join me and a few regulars on some rides?

Over to you

Mike


Hey Mike, kudos for asking us for feedback. That's a brave internet move. Here's some points to consider and I'd be happy to chat about these on or offline.

- Cassidy touches on a key point. Cycling is a polar opposite hobby and sport: solo or packs. I prefer cycling solo. I like to spend that time on the bike with just me for company. I do like riding with others but it's the exception, not the rule. So if it's an exception, it has to be an exceptional ride.

- This leads me to the pull; what's in it for me? What's it in it for the folks you'd like to attract to the rides? Everyone has their own motivations and you can't please everyone all of the time. In this case, you've got the South Downs on your doorstep - that's an incredible terrain attraction. But is that enough for everyone? Just reading the thread so far, you can see everyone has their own idea of what would make a compelling ride. So, you could think about what's most attractive and how much time or help you'd need to achieve that.

- Distance and travelling. Not the ride itself - that's in your control - but getting to the ride. Personally, 2 hours travelling is the maximum I'll commit to unless it's weekend away. Add in people who don't have a car (like me) then that really limits the catchment area. I'd kill to get to your neck of the woods - and I can do it but it's a massive ball-ache and a big reason why I don't join these rides. Getting there ok, but a 2 plus hour slog back on public transport? At the weekend? Forget it. Time is precious and something we can't buy or get back, so it's back to point 1 and it being exceptional - what's the pull? So, perhaps think about how to attract the real local folk as a solid basis. This platform is pretty much dead - just look at the place and this sub-forum - so what another tools or local outlets and resources could you use to attract like-minded folk?

- Personality and persona. Not everyone likes what they see, read or hear. Flippant comments, out of frustration, over the lack of engagement. Perceptions over the ride, thanks to your race-tuned machines and style, causes the reader to create their own impression of you (and me, and everyone here). This can impact impressions about the rides (evident on this thread). Whether we like it or not it impacts engagement. Locally, who could you collaborate with, share ideas and team together to achieve the goals you have?


The pull for me is being able to ride somewhere different from the trails that you might normally ride every week and possibly get a bit bored of. Not only that you get a local guide who will show you round the trails so that you don't have to bother faffing about with maps or gps, and it's all free. At a Wiggle or Evans ride you'd pay £40 for that these days, although I suppose you do get some free socks/t shirt.

Also for me it's a chance to ride some of my retro collection with people who like similair bikes. I do have friends who I can go riding with but the majority of riders are in to the latest bikes and kit, not stuff from a quarter of a century ago.

I can't really help you with getting to rides but on the rides that I have organised myself I've always tried to make the meeting point easily accessible, close to transport links etc if anyone from further afield does venture down here.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:58 pm 
gold | rider | rBoTM
gold | rider | rBoTM

Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:06 pm
Posts: 13019
Location: Worthing, West Sussex
I'd like to ask al-onestare, what you mean by getting out of it, what's in it for you?

What do you expect to get out of it? It's a shared interest in old bikes, building and riding, not a Status Quo appreciation society.

Riding somewhere different from your normal trails, or possibly showing you new ones, if the ride is in your patch? Checking local cafes, useful for your rides?
Banter? Actually meeting people and chatting to them, getting an idea about the people behind the keyboard? As a cycling forum, we're not likely to run out of things/experiences/knowledge/anecdotes about rides and equipment.
Sometimes, although not generally with mine, there is an exchange of bikes parts/sales. Always bargains at these meetings, when I go to others' folks rides.
How can you judge if a ride is 'going to be exceptional' if you never attend them?
You say you'd 'kill to get to our neck of the woods' and in the next breath say it's a 'massive ball ache'
Until recently, we had a retrobike member come from Sevenoaks regularly for the rides in this area. IIRC, you're not far from there, although I stand to be corrected on that.
Regarding persona, refer to my comment regarding banter.

I think it's a shame that so few attend, when there are a lot of members in this area, the rides aren't going to leave anyone in hospital, and we get to meet other like minded folk. How can that be a bad thing?

It's quite telling, 173 views and only 9 people have commented. I wonder if any of the area mods are among that number? :roll:

Mike


Last edited by Mike Muz 67 on Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:03 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:00 pm 
retrobike rider
retrobike rider

Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:37 am
Posts: 964
Location: On the move !
I guess it's difficult to answer as to why the turn outs are so low, I would guess that almost all of the retro folk that used to turn up are still in the local area ? Perhaps if some of those would pop a reply it would give a better idea as to why they have stoped coming along, from my personal point of view I think the rides being organized lately offer pretty much everything you could want from a ride....great terrain (off or on road) good people to spend our precious time with cake ! and plenty of retro bike chat, as far as the length of the rides putting people of then that's quite possible but being probably the oldest rider currently coming along to rides I have to say that I have never felt that there is pressure to go beyond what I'm capable of and turning the day into a chore and putting me of from turning up for the next one.
Both Mike and Tim have organized in my opinion excellent rides and have always taken into account the ability of those who attend so as to not risk putting them of from coming to rides in the future.
But I guess it comes down to those who read these posts but chose not to reply, if people would like a shorter ride then that's fine but if no one tells us what there looking for in a ride it's very difficult to organize something to suit ?
So to all those who read these posts but don't rely....please just tell what your looking for in a ride ?

Mick


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:59 am 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:16 pm
Posts: 5156
Mike Muz 67 wrote:
I'd like to ask al-onestare, what you mean by getting out of it, what's in it for you?

What do you expect to get out of it? It's a shared interest in old bikes, building and riding, not a Status Quo appreciation society.

Riding somewhere different from your normal trails, or possibly showing you new ones, if the ride is in your patch? Checking local cafes, useful for your rides?
Banter? Actually meeting people and chatting to them, getting an idea about the people behind the keyboard? As a cycling forum, we're not likely to run out of things/experiences/knowledge/anecdotes about rides and equipment.
Sometimes, although not generally with mine, there is an exchange of bikes parts/sales. Always bargains at these meetings, when I go to others' folks rides.
How can you judge if a ride is 'going to be exceptional' if you never attend them?
You say you'd 'kill to get to our neck of the woods' and in the next breath say it's a 'massive ball ache'
Until recently, we had a retrobike member come from Sevenoaks regularly for the rides in this area. IIRC, you're not far from there, although I stand to be corrected on that.
Regarding persona, refer to my comment regarding banter.

I think it's a shame that so few attend, when there are a lot of members in this area, the rides aren't going to leave anyone in hospital, and we get to meet other like minded folk. How can that be a bad thing?

It's quite telling, 173 views and only 9 people have commented. I wonder if any of the area mods are among that number? :roll:

Mike


Hey - thanks for asking :)

    Challenging / mixture of terrain - sweet rewards for the hard work

That's it. The social side is nice, but not the primary reason for me.

Quote:
How can you judge if a ride is 'going to be exceptional' if you never attend them?


I've planned to get to at least 4 of your rides. 2 were knocked out because of engineering works, 1 because I had to leave the UK for a last minute work project and 1 because the weather forecast turned a deeper shade of wet. I can make a call based on the photos, the route and the feedback from previous rides.

Quote:
Banter? Actually meeting people and chatting to them, getting an idea about the people behind the keyboard?


Quote:
It's quite telling, 173 views and only 9 people have commented. I wonder if any of the area mods are among that number?


Quote:
and had coffee while I waited for the south coast retrobike massive to turn up


Quote:
so off we went knowing no-one else could be bothered


Quote:
Banter? Actually meeting people and chatting to them, getting an idea about the people behind the keyboard?


I get the frustration loud and clear. Repeating it in the same place you're trying to drum-up support or activity is counter-productive. One persons bants is another mans :roll: :facepalm:

Quote:
Until recently, we had a retrobike member come from Sevenoaks regularly for the rides in this area. IIRC, you're not far from there, although I stand to be corrected on that.


Indeed, on a fast train it's 14 mins between Orpington and Sevenoaks, half an hour on the slow train and my nearest station of Elmstead Woods. Kudos to the folks who go that far and invest that much time. I've explained my parameters and you can check national rail to look at the times involved :)

You've got some cracking bike shops in the area. Some organise rides and have a great rider community so perhaps it's worth chatting with them to see what local support is there for the retro based rides. This site (right now) and this sub-forum is on it's last legs so widening the reach to other platforms and people might be the way ahead, and using this place to simply post when a ride is scheduled.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:27 am 
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider

Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:33 am
Posts: 3244
Location: Riding my Woodsie.
Mike Muz 67 wrote:

It's quite telling, 173 views and only 9 people have commented. I wonder if any of the area mods are among that number? :roll:

Mike



Hey Mike. I've read this thread a couple of times to see what sort of response you are getting, but it's not really for me to comment on given my location. However, I will say this.
Credit to you for trying to drum up support. It can be really frustrating to organise stuff and not get a decent turn-out. As you are probably aware we have had the same problems in MacRetro, which was probably one of the more active area forums. I think the reasons for low turnout are many and varied, but what you organise in mind of one problem (say rider fitness concerns) will not deal with those with transport issues, or family commitments, other health problems, hangovers, etc, etc, etc. While it's good to ask what folk want to do, as an organiser I think the best thing you can do is organise rides you want to do, publicise it well, and hope others turn up. If they don't, at least you are getting a nice ride out of it. :wink:

btw, I'd love to come and ride the South Downs but I struggle to do any rides that don't start at my front door so that's not much help!


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:22 am 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:24 pm
Posts: 426
Location: West Sussex
Having been on a couple of Mike’s rides and being a little older and less fit than most on them, I can honestly say that I have never felt excluded from the group at any point (please don’t tell me otherwise Mike!).

I don’t think it would be necessary to organise different rides depending on fitness in view of the above and anyway how could you judge it, it’s such a relative term. In comparison to my fitness a few years ago I consider myself a finely honed athlete, others might see me as an absolute bloater, which is possibly nearer the mark.

Speaking personally, I would come on more rides, I would like to be able to cycle more full stop! But one week in four I’m on call and that pretty much discounts the following weekend as well as I’m usually lying around comatose on the sofa. So what riding I am doing tends to be impromptu.

I’m sure I’ll be on another one soon though Mike…….as soon as my new retro steed is finished :wink:, that Overbury's I rode on the last one really was too small :lol:.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:33 pm 
retrobike rider
retrobike rider
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:28 pm
Posts: 256
Location: Bognor Regis
Hi Mike, and to all you others of course! I can give you the reason I don't attend any rides or reply to threads about them -- for about 18 months now I've had arthritis in both knees, can't walk to any reasonable extent let alone ride them there hills. I think there needs to be a stepping-down by inactive mods so others like yourself can help the area rides along -- think I've said that to you before but if I haven't then there it is. As you'll maybe recall I go uphill slower than continental drift but to echo others I've never felt "put upon" about it. This arthritis thing came out of nowhere, not been a lot of fun and to top it all off it happened about a week after finishing up a '98 Explosif, so that has had a total of about 300 yards use. :facepalm:


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 Post subject: Re: Your views, please
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:49 pm 
Lincs, East and South Yorks Deputy AEC
Lincs, East and South Yorks Deputy AEC
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Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:55 pm
Posts: 6651
Location: GUNNESS NTH LINCS
keep plugging mike, theyll be quiet and busy at times.

I get the solo aspect but every now and then a group ride to talk bollocks is great and an ace way to make new friends, something that ive found becomes less frequent as you get older.

As long as you keep riding thats what is important, dont give up, give in or change why you do it, others havent and dont even join in when there is an oppotunity, mayhem, local rides and races near me etc etc. I used to get frustrated about it all and question why folk bother, but the more i understand my own methods, and belief me ive had an interesting few years battling some demons, the more i thnk i get why some dont want to.

Anyways, thinking too deeply now mucka

i'd love to pop down and if i get the chance i will. I doubt i can do wales this weekend due to funds and jobs etc so planning is hard

much love, peace and happy trails


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