Gravel bike? Humbug, Scotland needs proper All Terrain bikes

I've been a bit quiet here lately, the cull is going well because it's down 2 frames and then up 2 frames from starting point.

I thought I was doing well, I gave a frame to Jamie, so N-1, but he then gave me a nice Viking frame, so back to N.

Desperate to reduce the herd, I then gave a very nice Reynolds frame to a mate, so N-1 again, result!

But a month later, that mate turns up with "Look what I've got for you! Just what you're been after for ages!"

Indeed it was, and so back to N with this frame.

Now the Galaxy project is shelved because I have a better option for what I wanted it for. I may build it as a tourer now.

So here we have a Dawes Cougar, an All Terrain bike, properly built with lugs and 531. All Terrain is better description of what we ride up here than gravel IMO.

It even has a nod at modern geometry, long, slack, but not low.

A quick mock up shows I can squeeze in 700c wheels, and it looks like I may just be able to fit a 47-50mm tyre with those long chainstays. That's the next step.



More to follow.

BTW anyone got a brochure for this model?

Next stage in the mock up for the bike Dawes should have made in 1988. A Rough Stuff/All Terrain/Gravel bike.

If it works, I'm going to badge it up as a Windrush II.

Destickered, Dawes Concorde bars, Ideale saddle as fitted to 1959s and 1960s Dawes, and roughly set to my position. Saddle will have to come forward.



Tried 47mm tyre in front just touches underside of fork crown.…



Plenty side clearance with road tyres on 700c rims, might have to find a 45mm tyre.




Need to find a 1950 Dawes badge.

Biggest problem is going to be brakes. The canti mounts are 30mm too low for 700c. I'm looking at my stash of Resilion brakes. That might add a bit of class.

Otherwise expect a bodge, or drum brakes.

Re:

Cool project , but if you want to use 700c wheels why just not use a touring frame? Dawes made enough of those... otherwise stick to 26" and make up the rolling diameter with big tyres?

Or just change the front fork to a touring job rather than the whole thing?

Signing up. Agree so far with others about keeping it 26".

Re: Re:

Captain Stupido":11n8izig said:

Cool project , but if you want to use 700c wheels why just not use a touring frame? Dawes made enough of those... otherwise stick to 26" and make up the rolling diameter with big tyres?

Click to expand...

26" is an option.

I have a new set of 2.35" Schwalbe Super Motos which are a nice fast slick. But that's too easy. I've got to spoke up a set of wheels for this anyway, so I may as well go for proper sized wheels.

Anyway small wheels are only fun when they're 20".

It's not going to be a road tourer (I have a Galaxy frame I can use for that) think more offroad tourer.

Its purpose is to be a Scottish Gravel* bike, ie able to cope with large rocks and roots etc but able to shift along on the smoother stuff.

I am finding with modern tubes that I am getting too many pinch flats nowadays. This is on stuff I have been riding on for decades without punctures. I'm suspecting lower quality tubes, and I haven't found much difference between the brands or price. Thus larger wheels with around 50mm tyre is what I want.

I've already built such a bike and it's spot on. However it's too modern for rides with my local classic bike group.

In short I'm trying to build the bike Dawes should have built in the 1980s. They had all the right stuff already, and they would have invented the gravel* bike.

Bear in mind if this doesn't work to my satisfaction, my next option is modifying a 1930's rodbrake Rudge for the job.


*I prefer All Terrain bike, because that fits in better with what we have in Scotland.

Re:

It's not like you to start another off-piste project Brian

Have to admit, I seem to take my drop bar Marin Mtb on more All Terrain terrain (?! ) than "Gravel" type terrain, mainly because it seems capable of it, mostly.

I'm sure you'll find some suitable brakes, I have somewhere some adapter plates to move the brake bosses up a litte to suit 700c wheels, I've left them in the spares box for now because 26" stuff is available and cheap, and for the effort involved in the change I couldn't see overwhelming benefits for me.

I see the frame has a rear mech hanger..... :twisted:

Re: Re:

jimo746":3nh029er said:

...I see the frame has a rear mech hanger..... :twisted:

Click to expand...

I thought a man of your experience and talent would have recognised it's the mount for an oversize rear light. Those early carbide lamps were quite heavy.

I like the brevity of 'Gravel' but 'All Terrain' is a better description of what we ride here, especially when we throw in a bit of Rough Stuff.

A bit of trial wheel sizing going on.

700cx28mm in front on narrow rim, 26"x2.35" Super-Moto on rear with 40mm rim.




650Bx47mm Horizon on narrow rim at front, 26"x2.35" Super-Moto on rear with 40mm rim.



Got a bit excited about the 650B because those tyres are really light and I have a small stack of NOS Weinmann 650B rims in the attic.

Did I say 650B?

Once I got through King Tut's tomb to the Nefertiti layer, I discovered they were 650A rims. Of course they were, why would I have bought 650B rims all those years ago?

I is now disappoint.

The 26" is the best option anyway because I don't have to muck around with brake bodges. That plus I get a higher volume tyre on the bike. I'm a great believer in high volume tyres at low pressure for rough roads, been beating that drum for decades.

Now try to find a wide 26" rim for V-brakes or cantis. Luckily with considerable foresight, ie sheer luck, I bought a set of 50mm rims over 10 years ago for my 1x1 and they've never been used.

I may have a clearance problem though. With the 40mm rim, there's very little clearance at the sides with the Super Motos. It may be even less with the wider rim.

Fun with wheel sizes.

700c: 622 + 2(28mm) = 678mm
650B: 584 +2(47mm) = 678mm
26": 559 +2(60mm) = 679mm


I have one concern. That line of goolie graters along the top tube.

Typical English bike, no concern shown for the chap who likes to ride in a kilt.

Re:

Brian, you can get 42-590 tyres such as schwalbe marathons if you want a fatter tyre for your 650a's. You also can get a Kenda slightly knobbly cx tyre in 37-590.
Further you can get v-brake pad extenders from China which were originally for the Bmx crowd to allow the 406 and 451 versions of the 20" wheel to be used on the same bike. Alternatively v-brakes with much longer slots for the pads also exist for the same reason.
Thought you might like to know to further increase your options