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February BoTM entrants
Cyb Giant Cadex CFM 1 2%  2%  [ 4 ]
cchris2lou Scrambler Line 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
Sithlord Ritchey P20 16%  16%  [ 38 ]
Shamus Klein Adroit 3%  3%  [ 7 ]
oneschnark Ibis 17%  17%  [ 40 ]
densjo Volvo Cannondale 8%  8%  [ 19 ]
Arran American Comp Lite 3%  3%  [ 6 ]
hoegaardenadds1 GT LTS-DH 0%  0%  [ 1 ]
TiFat AMP B-3 9%  9%  [ 22 ]
SF Klein Klein Attitude 4%  4%  [ 9 ]
legrandefromage Saracen 531 3%  3%  [ 7 ]
felixdelrio Overbury’s Pioneer 5%  5%  [ 11 ]
raucherkette GT Timberline 7%  7%  [ 16 ]
BrunoD GT Tempest 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
jonnyboy666 Orange Aluminium Elite Limited Edition 4%  4%  [ 10 ]
SYN-CROSSIS Klein Attitude 1%  1%  [ 3 ]
GT-Steve Alpinestars AL-Mega DX 4%  4%  [ 9 ]
grundig-world-cup-90 Yeti FRO 7%  7%  [ 17 ]
mr_ship Nuke Proof 4%  4%  [ 9 ]
Total votes : 232
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:22 pm 
Special Retro Guru
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Tallpaul wrote:
:lol:

I'm suppresing diversity now? Good grief, I speculated on what difference a format change would make.

And then went on to talk about people who'd naturally vote for certain things, having to vote for others...?

How or why is that a good thing?

Interesting, is a separate thing, but how is it a good thing?
Tallpaul wrote:
You wouldn't find it interesting, I would.

Not sure about interesting - it probably would be, but I don't see it as desirable.

It almost hints or implies some sort of "right" view, that's all, that's why I don't like the idea. It's where it seems to be coming from, as opposed to the outcome.

People enter bikes to BOTM - by shortlisting them, they're effectively being dismissed as insignificant, outdone by the popular. And the same for any that have voted for them.

Personally, one of the things I like about BOTM, is looking at the results and seeing the votes cast for bikes, that whilst probably have got no chance of winning, still get a fair number of votes - to me, that's much more interesting, than whether some consensus has occurred.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:27 pm 
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I must be writing in some sort of foreign language , as no one has replied.. :(


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:30 pm 
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider
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the vote has prob not been stopped and someone voted after 12 sith.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:38 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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The fanboys would still get to vote for their favourites, but if a significant preportion of other voters didn't agree then that brand wouldn't make the final cut. There is no real change as all entries would an get equal chance to make the top three. I chose top three as they are posted on the home page.

I hadn't really considered that anyone took such satisfaction from looking at the final poll and seeing that the bike they'd voted for was nowhere near the top, but it kinda makes sense as I know some do relish not voting for the 'obvious' choice.

In the specific case of this month, I think that many voters who had voted for a 'non-runner' would strongly favour either the VRC-type Ibis or the very Retrobike Ritchey. Maybe it would still be an even split, but I'd be curious to see.

As no accolade is awarded to anything below P3 (at least in terms of appearing on the home page), I don't think that ignoring them once everyone has had fair chance to vote is being particularly elitist. But again, we obviously disagree.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:39 pm 
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Did you happen to snag a screen shot of our computer that showed the vote total at 11:59?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:39 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Tallpaul wrote:
The fanboys would still get to vote for their favourites, but if a significant proportion of other voters didn't agree then that brand wouldn't make the final cut. There is no real change as all entries would an get equal chance to make the top three. I chose top three as they are posted on the home page.

I hadn't really considered that anyone took such satisfaction from looking at the final poll and seeing that the bike they'd voted for was nowhere near the top, but it kinda makes sense as I know some do relish not voting for the 'obvious' choice.

In the specific case of this month, I think that many voters who had voted for a 'non-runner' would strongly favour either the VRC-type Ibis or the very Retrobike Ritchey. Maybe it would still be an even split, but I'd be curious to see.

As no accolade is awarded to anything below P3 (at least in terms of appearing on the home page), I don't think that ignoring them once everyone has had fair chance to vote is being particularly elitist. But again, we obviously disagree.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:40 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Ooh, that was an odd double post :?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:56 pm 
Special Retro Guru
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Tallpaul wrote:
The fanboys would still get to vote for their favourites, but if a significant preportion of other voters didn't agree then that brand wouldn't make the final cut.

Why, though? To what end? I just think the entering BOTM is as much about the entering and taking part, as the results. Why dismiss them?

It's all these rare gems from the distant past, that makes retrobike, and BOTM, IMO.
Tallpaul wrote:
I hadn't really considered that anyone took such satisfaction from looking at the final poll and seeing that the bike they'd voted for was nowhere near the top, but it kinda makes sense as I know some do relish not voting for the 'obvious' choice.

I may not have explained that very well - it's not that my intent is clearly to vote for something not "obvious", simply that the bikes I often prefer just so happen to be so.
Tallpaul wrote:
In the specific case of this month, I think that many voters who had voted for a 'non-runner' would strongly favour either the VRC-type Ibis or the very Retrobike Ritchey. Maybe it would still be an even split, but I'd be curious to see.

And I have no argument for that - I'm not trying to say what you find interesting is wrong.

I'm just voicing my opinion in that I like the current format, because I get to see (normally) a very diverse choice - even if, utlimately, the winners (or winning 3) don't really tend to be that diverse.

I didn't vote for the Ibis because of any VRC leanings - I can assure you, I'm not elitist. I voted for the Ibis because I think it looked exquisite and reminded me of the era and bikes I enountered when I first started with mountain biking.
Tallpaul wrote:
As no accolade is awarded to anything below P3 (at least in terms of appearing on the home page), I don't think that ignoring them once everyone has had fair chance to vote is being particularly elitist. But again, we obviously disagree.

I just think it's a baby-step along the way <shrug>

Personally, I like seeing all the entries, choices, and how the voting went. retrobike seems about nostalgia and diversity, and narrowing a choice, based on establishing the most popular, short-listed bike, when the entry was all about the bikes and a bit of fun, just seems to be going towards a common, more serious view.

And to explain, I'm not saying this as my perception of neutralising your argument (I'm not that arrogant ;-) - well maybe I am, but that's irrelevant ;-)), merely a bit of balance - you have a take on it, so do I, so - I hope - do many others. But in suggesting change, a robust exchange of opinions on the matter is a good thing.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:04 pm 
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SF Klein wrote:
Did you happen to snag a screen shot of our computer that showed the vote total at 11:59?


oneschnark Ibis won


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:05 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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The VRC/Retrobike thing was an off the cuff example of the sort of additional information the two-tier poll might produce (or not).

I'm all in favour of robust argument. I'm so arrogant that I don't even care how arrogant you think you are :P

I still don't see why, if in some parralel universe, my suggested poll format was run, that the perceived minnows of the vote would receive less recognition. The results of that initial poll would still exist and they'd have every bit as much exposure as they do now i.e. within the confines of that poll thread.


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