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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 1:28 pm 
BoTM Winner
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Mike Muz 67 wrote:



Just realized it's a '99 bike, in a pre '97 competition! :facepalm:

Mike



Was wondering about that.......


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:15 pm 
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Wow, tough choices.

Having recently bought an RC200, Bollox64's Team Issue F1 looks amazing, and the build thread was required reading for my (complete-ish) build.

But, I'm a sucker for a San Andreas. Like the Pace, amazing bikes for their time -- so far ahead of the competition.

In the end though, for sheer completeness, attention to detail, and the nexus bike for many of today's 'innovations'; I'm going to have to give it to Pete's RC100.

Sorry Klein owners...


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:28 am 
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WandsworthRouleur wrote:
Wow, tough choices.
In the end though, for sheer completeness, attention to detail, and the nexus bike for many of today's 'innovations'; I'm going to have to give it to Pete's RC100.


Obviously this comment will be taken out of context given I have a competing entry in this month's competition. But, what exactly did the Pace pioneer in terms of MTB technology that wasn't done previously??


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:32 pm 
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mkozaczek wrote:
Obviously this comment will be taken out of context given I have a competing entry in this month's competition. But, what exactly did the Pace pioneer in terms of MTB technology that wasn't done previously??


That is indeed a very good question.

I think there are two aspects, one: a new philosophy in bike design, and two: a number of specific innovations seen together on a bike for the first time.

Firstly, the shift in philosophy. The RC100 was, I believe, the first MTB (and possibly any cycle) that took a genuinely engineering led approach to design. Up until then, bike design seemed to be largely based on experience and artisan craftsmanship. MTBs looked like they did, because that's how road bikes looked. Pace went back to first principles and engineered a bike (based on the technology reasonably available to them) that solved specific mountain biking problems. It took a while for the wider industry to catch up (possibly F1 suspension engineers working with Marin in the mid-late 90s was the next step), but today, pretty much any bike from a respected manufacturer will have been properly engineered.

Secondly, some specific (though probably not all) innovations that we still see today. The integrated BB axle; the quill-less headset, box section and asymmetric rear triangle, building a stiff frame to maximise the effect of suspension, hydraulic brakes (rime brakes, admittedly), motor cross inspired bars. There are probably more. And there was just some nice engineering -- like cutting the BB threads only after the frame had been welded. Now I'm not saying that Pace invented any or all of these things, but like Apple did with the iPod, Pace brought a number of inventions together and innovated to create the RC100.

That is why I think the RC100 was a nexus point for the modern MTB.

Oh, and I do like Kleins too!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:45 pm 
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I certainly think if you go back in history far enough or travel far enough, everything has been done before.

But I have to agree even down to external machining of the tube profile, lots of features not done by most and certainly not combining so many design ideas and solutions all on one bike build and at that single point in time.

TO be fair to Pete, And Pace, Pete has done them justice, I have yet to see a more complete and exceptional build.

Back in the day there were only a few Standalone bikes that changed the way we looked at things back then, (here in the Uk) The Klein Attitude, and the Pace and Manitou were all Aluminium contributors to it, and steel.... they had there's as well.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:01 pm 
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I understand.

I'd say the square tube aspect of this bike's design is probably the most striking and unique. As Sinnerman pointed out the rest is borrowed.

Doug B was making 90mm BB shells and 145mm rear asymetrical rear ends a year and change earlier, some with integrated BBs ala Cunningham/Klein. Gary Klein is largely credited with first using square tubing for the rear ends in mountain bikes starting in 84/85, which Doug of course then borrowed for his design.

So yeah, lots of cool features combined and executed well, no doubt about it. I was just curious what the big draw was.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 8:46 pm 
B.o.T.Y. Winner / Gold Trader
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The first ever retrobike of the year was my Pace RC100.

Ten years on ...... one should do it again, a real pioneer in not cracking as much as a manitou.

Image

RBG


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 3:01 am 
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Answer Manitous don't count


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 1:06 pm 
MacRetro rider
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Location: Near a tree, by a river in a hole in the ground....
I just wish someone at Answer / Manitou had said "Why don't we try 6061 instead..."


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 4:34 pm 
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"not cracking as much as a manitou."
Doug Bradbury Manitou frames weren't known for cracking. It's only the Answer made ones with the BS 7000 aluminum that do that.
"I just wish someone at Answer / Manitou had said "Why don't we try 6061 instead..."" YES! A thousand times this! Great looking bikes ruined by a poor material choice.


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