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BoTM July '13 - Muddy Fox vs Orange vs Saracen - Vote Now
Poll ended at Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:02 pm
We_are_Stevo's 1992 Saracen Kili Wot 7%  7%  [ 12 ]
nevadasmith's 1989 Orange Formula 14%  14%  [ 24 ]
The History Man's 1997 Muddy Fox Rock N Roll TEAM 12%  12%  [ 20 ]
Mr Panda's 1995 Orange P7 4%  4%  [ 6 ]
Legrandefromage's - 1992 Saracen Kili Racer 5%  5%  [ 8 ]
Andyz's 1990 Muddy Fox Courier Comp 3%  3%  [ 5 ]
Gravy Monster's 1989 Saracen Trekker Competition UU 12%  12%  [ 20 ]
Secret_Squirrels 93 Vit T 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
lord GT's 1992 Sarcen Kili Pro 2%  2%  [ 3 ]
Boscarn's 1996 Saracen Kili Pro 3%  3%  [ 5 ]
mrkawasaki's Orange Vitamin T2 2%  2%  [ 3 ]
Brocklanders 1989 Saracen Tufftrax 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Stocko's 1993 Orange Clockwork 8%  8%  [ 13 ]
1997BlackC5's 1996 Saracen Rufftrax 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
drcarlos' 1989 Muddy Fox Courier Comp 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
stanny's 1985 Saracen Conquest 2%  2%  [ 3 ]
MADB's 1984 S&G Araya Muddy Fox 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
chrisv40's 1993 Saracen Traverse 3%  3%  [ 5 ]
Matthews' Muddy Fox Alu Pro 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
xxnick1975's Saracen City Bike 2%  2%  [ 3 ]
91lavadome's 1996 ORANGE p7 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
minorlegend's Orange Clockwork 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
iscervo's 1992 Muddy Fox Alu Xtr Twinshock 2%  2%  [ 4 ]
Rodrigues' 1989 Saracen Kili Flyer Comp 13%  13%  [ 22 ]
Total votes : 169
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:48 pm 
BoTM Winner
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[quote="We_are_Stevo"]...does it really matter if a frame was hand rolled on the thigh of some dusky maiden in the Equatorial Americas or some little guy in a sweat stained t-shirt and forage cap in the middle of an Asian rain forest?

/quote]

Yes.
Bikes are a passion. I like them all. Some I like more.

I could care less what car I drive as long as it starts cold and bakes the balonies. No doubt car enthusiasts would look at my little 4 cylinder station wagon and be indifferent. That is ok by me though because cars are not something I care too much about.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:56 pm 
P.o.T.M. Winner / MacRetro Rider
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We_are_Stevo wrote:

...does it really matter if a frame was hand rolled on the thigh of some dusky maiden


Bloomin Engineers! Lack of understanding of basic human physiology :D

Nice thought though :twisted:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:58 pm 
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Ductape wrote:
drcarlos wrote:
Ductape wrote:
It is interestig that with all the Mountain bikes built in Asia, there has never been a big following for any specific asian Mtb builder (person not company).
Different culture.


Muddyfox and Orange were both designed and distributed in the the UK, much like Specialized and Marin are designed in the US and built in the far east, I think they both have a decent following.

Carl.


The brand yes but I was implying specifically a persons name.
Look at all the bikes represented on Retrobike and the vast majority were made in Asia. Now name one Asian MTB frame builers name from BITD.
We can rattle off the names of U.S. and U.K. frame builders with very little effort.
A few of those dudes must have had the desire to get of the factory line and start their own custom Mtb frame making shop.


Whilst I enjoy 'craftsman' produced products as much as the next man, the handful of 'names' past and present only ever turned out a tiny percentage of the lines to bear their name; as soon as the 'hobby' industry grew wings and took flight they were all hawking their wares around the Far Eastern manufacturers to get the best reproduction at the cheapest unit rates to maximise their returns...

...and why not?


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:59 pm 
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Archemist wrote:
You could buy a £400 Saracen (which TBH was a big fat chunk of money in '88) or something "handmade" for 4 times as much and be at least 1% faster.
....


We are that small percentage willing to go for that extra little bit! Thats wy we hang out on geeky bicycle forums.

BITD my first three frames were mass produced in Asia. It's number four I fondly remember though. There were no big gains with the extra cash spent, but it was pure bliss.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:15 pm 
West Midlands Deputy AEC
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drcarlos wrote:
The Saracens were different and were mostly handbuilt in the UK in Warwickshire and the Conquests and Kilis that you see here certainly fit that description and I also think the Trekker was too.


I thought that once the initial link up with F W Evans was dropped all Saracens were fabricated in the Far East and then assembled (hand built) in the uk - clever marketing long Orange and MF!

In this way Saracen was actually similar to Orange in that they were a uk brand, designed and assembled in the UK.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:20 pm 
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Mr Panda wrote:
We_are_Stevo wrote:

...does it really matter if a frame was hand rolled on the thigh of some dusky maiden


Bloomin Engineers! Lack of understanding of basic human physiology :D

Nice thought though :twisted:


I was going to say 'tube set' hence the rolling (don't start on extruding, it's far too late for those kind of euphemisms!) but I was typing on my phone and just couldn't be *rsed with the aggro of trying to get the jumpy little edit window to actually go where I wanted it!

Plus which I rather foolishly sliced off the tip of my left thumb the other day whilst removing a recalcitrant bar end plug so my dexterity is currently not what it was! :roll:

As for the 'resto' aspect towards old tat we were glad to see the back off (much like the 70's as a whole...) at the time; I do like old cars, particularly Morris Minors, but I wouldn't want one restored to just off the production line condition!

My last Moggy had a Ford 2 litre V4 under the bonnet and Wolfrace Slotmags and was Fun with a capital 'F' 8)

I'm afraid I have the same attitude/approach to bikes, hence why you will never see any Deerhead kit on any of my bikes; it may have been brilliant at the time but so was the 'Hobby Horse...'

...and I don't want one o' them either! :lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:06 am 
B.o.T.M. Winner / Feature Bike
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nevadasmith wrote:
I thought that once the initial link up with F W Evans was dropped all Saracens were fabricated in the Far East and then assembled (hand built) in the uk - clever marketing long Orange and MF!


Yup, they were all made in the Far East and, to quote the Saracen catalogue, hand assembled in Saracen's Warwickshire workshop. No British craftsmen were harmed in the making of a Saracen.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:29 am 
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Location: brighton
Haha glad I started something! (he says, overflowing with pride)

Realistically I know hand crafted shit means something but back in the day I didn't know what was hand crafted and what was made on a production line. And if it weren't for back in the day none of those would mean shit right??


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 6:59 am 
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Thing is, if it were not for mass production (which in those days still meant 'hand made' don't forget, just sheer weight of numbers in the form of cheap labour...) the majority of us would still be riding around on lugged steel frames!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 7:17 am 
BoTM Winner / PoTM Winner
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3 cheers for the mediocre, without them we'd all still be riding mediocre bikes!!


Wait...


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