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Who has the best of British?
Poll ended at Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:46 pm
videojetman- Dynatech 2%  2%  [ 4 ]
nevadasmith- Bigfoot Smokestone 5%  5%  [ 9 ]
makster-1990 Overbury's Pioneer 8%  8%  [ 16 ]
biglev-Roberts Peugeot 7%  7%  [ 14 ]
dendy-Saracen Kili Comp 96 5%  5%  [ 10 ]
Rob Aitken- Dave Lloyd 3%  3%  [ 5 ]
legrandefromage-Harry Quinn 7%  7%  [ 13 ]
firedfromthecircus-Cleland Aventura number 5 6%  6%  [ 11 ]
mrlee-1985 Dawes cougar 2%  2%  [ 3 ]
Giom6-Zinn Z-classic 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
Easy_Rider-'94 Dawes Special Edition 2%  2%  [ 4 ]
Dawes-Man-Dawes "The Edge eXTRa" 2%  2%  [ 4 ]
H-Fuquay 2%  2%  [ 4 ]
danson67-1985 Highpath 3%  3%  [ 6 ]
reanimation-'94 Prestige 2%  2%  [ 3 ]
NeilM-1990 Roberts White Spider 2%  2%  [ 4 ]
Paul Eggleton-Pace 5%  5%  [ 10 ]
ShiftySteve-91 Aluminium O 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
JeRky-Chas Roberts D.O.G.S.B.O.L.X 13%  13%  [ 25 ]
Mr Panda-1995 Orange P7 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
mikee-Pace 2%  2%  [ 3 ]
sinnerman-Hardisty/Nike 20%  20%  [ 38 ]
terryhfs-m-trax 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 191
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:28 pm 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:19 pm
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Location: Runcorn, cheshire.
all this talk of cleland has got me curious,
i'd love to ride one just to satisfy my curiosity.
but then i'd love to ride the roberts db as well.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:21 pm 
retrobike rider
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Location: Near Wendover Bucks
videojetman wrote:
all this talk of cleland has got me curious,
i'd love to ride one just to satisfy my curiosity.
but then i'd love to ride the roberts db as well.


Well with six Cleland/Highpath owners currently on RetroBike and four of those being active "RetroRiders" Getting to ride one is not impossible especially at one of the "National" ride events. There is also the annual Cleland Reunion ride held near Wendover in Buckinghamshire in early December.

For anyone still unconvinced that the Cleland design is not as equally valid as mainstream mountain bikes, here is a link to a headcam video of my Highpath Cleland overtaking danson67's Overbury Pioneer. Those of you who have ridden with danson67 will know that he is a very strong and capable rider and generally much faster than me. The fact that I am able to overtake him whilst he is riding flat out is purely down to the trail conditions favoring the Cleland.

http://vimeo.com/17659045


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:36 pm 
retrobike rider
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Location: Runcorn, cheshire.
GrahamJohnWallace wrote:
videojetman wrote:
all this talk of cleland has got me curious,
i'd love to ride one just to satisfy my curiosity.
but then i'd love to ride the roberts db as well.


Well with six Cleland/Highpath owners currently on RetroBike and four of those being active "RetroRiders" Getting to ride one is not impossible especially at one of the "National" ride events. There is also the annual Cleland Reunion ride held near Wendover in Buckinghamshire in early December.

For anyone still unconvinced that the Cleland design is not as equally valid as mainstream mountain bikes, here is a link to a headcam video of my Highpath Cleland overtaking danson67's Overbury Pioneer. Those of you who have ridden with danson67 will know that he is a very strong and capable rider and generally much faster than me. The fact that I am able to overtake him whilst he is riding flat out is purely down to the trail conditions favoring the Cleland.

http://vimeo.com/17659045


i'll trade my rc100 for a short while.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 8:20 pm 
MacRetro rider
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Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:39 pm
Posts: 170
Location: SE Scotland
Also, people regard the Aventura as being a sort-of tow path bike, not as capable as a mountain bike at a trail centre.
I don't know if this is what most other riders would call 'challenging' terrain, there's no path as such, but I do pick up on some deer tracks.
This video was taken using my mobile phone, so not brilliant quality, but I'm sure, if you watch it, you'll be able to figure out that it's quite rough, and under the water are slimey bolders that you can't see, and nor can I ~ that's why I have to stop a couple of times; forgive the anglo-saxon expletives.
The puffing and panting reflects that I'm into my sixties, so I apologise for that.
http://vimeo.com/38937805


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:30 am 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:56 pm
Posts: 106
Well that video shuts me up....

thanks for sharing, I was tired for you just watching....
plenty of narrow paths, plenty of uneven slick surfaces, plenty of points where leverage is everything. I stand corrected

bravo, I would probably have a hard time riding that - with my full suspension Ellsworth.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:05 am 
MacRetro rider
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Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:39 pm
Posts: 170
Location: SE Scotland
Well, tvcreative, it wasn't meant to shut you up; I was hoping you may get inquisitive, ask a few questions, do some research ~ this may be that mythical bike you've been looking for.
Ha! Not really ...but maybe.
Just think if a younger, fitter, stronger rider than me were riding that section... and what if the weight of the Aventura could be signficantly reduced from its present 40lbs +.
If I had the money, I'd be really interested to see if suspension would improve the overall handling enough to make it worthwhile. At the moment, my view is that you need suspension because mountain bike balance is not really appropriate. 95% of my riding I don't need or want suspension, and about 40% of it, suspension would be a definite disadvantage.
But for now, I'm just out there, enjoying my own 'mythical machine'.


If anyone's interested, I've another vid I could upload, which shows stuff I routinely ride, and because I always ride alone, I don't have a clue how other riders would view it; challenging, easy, fast, slow, I don't know.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:58 am 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 3:07 pm
Posts: 4211
Location: London for my sin's
some (ok all) top entrants, to the point that anyone could easily deserve my or anyones vote.


tvcreative wrote:
Well that video shuts me up....
Piss, whine moan....


Ive read the thread twice and piqued 'Ive read everyone of your post's on here.
Let's just say you intend to be inflammatory and negative to all on here and that you have more than a small smidge of Anglophobia.

Your argument about weight is classic - modern full sussers are no lightweights are they now (certainly not in the everyman budgets of about 800 quid) and your argument about the clellands and highpaths is IMHO laughable.

If we really want to be honest a Clelland is a real mountain bike whereas the "mountain bikes" 99.99999% of us ride are derived form old beaters hurled down a mountain, then slowly added gears too to rde back up, then suspension was added as it was better for gert big bumps etc.

Your posts have otherwise detracted form a rather nice BOTM thread.

I'll give you some great advice as a grown man (well somone in his 50's anyway)should know - stop whining like a child! you are on a retrobike forum - mainly UK but with a pretty large international userbase. Shocker its about old bike - British ones will crop up. if its not your cup of tea and you cant put together a valid, reasoned argument then maybe a current US based forum is better for you.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:00 am 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:56 pm
Posts: 106
^^^^^ point taken. Anglophobia? I am half Welsh.

suspension=speed.

Makes you fearless in some ways.

Makes up for lack of skills in some cases.

A new Ellsworth Evolve 29er set up properly, is one of the nicest bikes I have ever owned (28 pounds)- but I always, always, fall back to the retro-classics, cause' it brings me closer to my youth...

In a way, it force's me to be at one (like your video) with my surroundings and my simple skills...

I ride for mileage most of the time on a crushed limestone prairie path (20-30 miles a day) so a daily jaunt on a Ritchey, Fat Chance, or Ibis feels just right...

New appreciation for the Cleland....

but I voted for the Lloyd.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:41 am 
Old School Grand Master
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tvcreative wrote:
^^^^^ point taken. Anglophobia? I am half Welsh.



:roll:


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:59 am 
retrobike rider
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I think that tvcreative's contribution to this thread has been very positive. I believe his doubt expressed what many other readers must have been thinking in the back of their minds but didn't take the bother to say. He has also listened to the arguments and has been brave enough to admit that his initial views were poorly informed.

Unlike Geoff more than half of my Cleland riding is with others, mostly those riding US derived bikes. I often ride alongside modern bikes and have even turned up unannounced on my 1983 Cleland Aventura for the local Sunday mountain bike club run. Aided by my 28 years experience of riding it and moderate fitness I do OK. Not as fast as the sub 20lb bikes in the ups nor the full suspension bikes on the downs, but I seldom get left behind for long. The other riders probably expect that I will kill myself or brake the bike in trying, but this has never happened. The bike sometimes receives sarcastic comments, I have even been asked as to "why I have brought along a shopper bike". But come a steep technical climb or a muddy section the bike has its own response. Its 44% hill climbing ability and legendary traction means that when the conditions suit it can out perform many modern machines. Occasionally, on tricky sections, I have been the only rider opting not to walk.

Not bad for a 29 year old bike that was designed by a motorbike rider and subsequently built by men in sheds.

The problem with mountain bike design is that the American bikes have set a norm that is now very difficult to deviate too far away from. When Geoff Apps invented the Cleland Cross Country Cycle, without any knowledge of the US machines existed, their where no norms to be broken. I say invented because this machine was designed by one man with a single vision of recreating a bicycle equivalent of a trials motorbike. Whereas the US mountain bike evolved as a result of the incremental improvements of various people made to the original Schwinn Excelsior. A bike not originally intended for off-road use beyond riding on the beach.

The original Cleland downsides of weight, high on road rolling resistance and wind resistance can now all be solved with modern materials and designs.

The last major hurdle is to persuade a manufacturer to make and market a modern variant. But if it is to sell well they will have to overturn some of the long-held received wisdoms held by mountain bikers. However, the first reaction of people test riding Clelands is how comparatively comfortable they are to ride. Perhaps this aspect of their design could help sell them to an entirely new demographic. Those who aren't convinced by the idea that off-road cycling needs to be inherently difficult and uncomfortable?


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