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What is your rBOTM?
Poll ended at Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:30 pm
Viscount 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
Bertin 2%  2%  [ 2 ]
The Norman Fay 2%  2%  [ 2 ]
Vitus 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Peugeot 2%  2%  [ 2 ]
Dyna-Tech 6%  6%  [ 5 ]
Gazelle 10%  10%  [ 8 ]
Mercian 11%  11%  [ 9 ]
Colnago 28%  28%  [ 23 ]
Somec 26%  26%  [ 21 ]
Raleigh 10%  10%  [ 8 ]
Alan 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 81
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:04 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 1468
Location: The Lovely Lincolnshire Wolds and by the sea in Sussex
Citoyen du monde wrote:
If one gets a bespoke bike built, there are a number of things that no builder would accept to do (BTW, your Raleigh has what I feel to be great set-up.)
Consensus is achieved when a feature/event or in the case, a bicycle type, has been shown to represent an idea for a large number of people. I would also like to know what you define as being "British". When I look at your Raleigh, I do not see anything British whatsoever but rather a standardized world bike.
I too like the idea of a framebuilder also having some actual race experience as a mechanic, but I often find that years of experience with a spanner do not help at all with building a frame well, something that you only achieve after years and years.


I am in broad agreement with you. I recall, as an example, when I ordered my SBDU from the SBDU, Go'D advised that I should not have shot-in seat stays on my 531Pro frame. My Lightweight Unit Corsa, on the other hand, bought new whilst I was a mere undergraduate was chosen largely using what I might now pompously call a price vs peformance ratio-I had graduated by the time the 600 group was fitted and the bike rebuilt by a very well known English TdF mechanic; who, incidentally wrote a book BITD and is named in another famous book, recently cited by one magazine as the best ever written about pro cycling.

My comment about"consensus"- note the commas - is a criticism of the very"reasons"many choose to buy what they do: in other words and very crudely:"I am unsure what to buy, therefore I'll follow the herd"(in the case of BMWs), or trend or other quasi-objective reason (bounded rationality if you will).

Your comment about, for example, eschewing Raleigh for"flashier more exotic brands"is a case in point about bounded rationality, and brands broadly these days are more introspective than nationality based - one bought a Mercedes BITD because the objective product quality was there, they buy them now because of the halo created by marketing people.

Generally you do not buy a Mercedes because it is German, whereas you did BITD: as being German was associated with objective product quality in cars.

My definition of British, or English is a very simple one. It is a thing, in this case a bicycle made by craftmen on these shores.

My definition of exotic is not per se about a brand, brands aren't in themselves exotic. Exotic for me is something intrinsic in the thing, the bicycle frame in this case would be built to the highest standards with the best for the purpose components (lugs, tubeset etc).

I do not consider myself a collector, the majority of my bikes have either a direct or indirect connection with me - the two Raleighs bought new, the 1978 Mistral bought new, the 1951 Hobbs bought new, the 1947 Hetchins bought new, the 1967 Geoffrey Butler bought new...I won't go on, but that said I am not old enough to have bought the 40s and 50s or 60s bikes new!

Some I have collected, but because of a certain"connection".

Interesting stuff Cdm.

Rk.


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 Post subject: original = best ??
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:02 am 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:22 am
Posts: 2075
Location: Warks
Quote:
All the bikes that I have owned long-term that have seen regular use have seen so many miles that there has been a need for large scale replacement of parts. This generally means that the parts were replaced with the best replacement parts that my pocket could afford at the time and that were current at the time of replacement. This usually meant an upgrade over the original components. In a few cases, as the bikes reach old age, when faced with the need to replace used parts, I have returned them to how they were originally assembled. Others have been upgraded with the newest and finest.


Would, therefore, an all original complete groupset on a 30-40 year old bike be more desirable for a collector than a bike that had parts successively replaced? For me yes, because that's how it left the workshop and thus historically correct.
Because there may be wear and tear affecting performance, one wouldn't want to ride it long distance and reserve it for 'sunday best'. I'd feel abusive if I rode the Somec because it's impeccable and a stone chip or graze would kill it dead, but as a work of bike art it's pure quality.
I love my Bertin because it's a complete and I believe original groupset, the paint is very good indeed but shows signs of honest wear so I won't lose sleep riding it in the wet, I'm sure many other bikes in BOTM fall into that category... :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:23 pm 
Pumpy's Bear
Pumpy's Bear
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Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:03 pm
Posts: 8145
Location: Hereford
Some interesting comments on what makes a bike 'correct' although not sure that I'd necessarily subscribe to them all including that a bike should be set up in a particular way to be entered although I may have misunderstood. Actually, in line with the last, perhaps we could have a Special Month with two photos of the bike, one a standard pose and the other of it out and about?

Still not sure where to vote however. Lots of love for the Somec and initially and I initially thought 'wow' but seeing lack of pedals (which for me does not make it complete) and the open bottle bosses made me reflect. I'm wavering towards the Bertin, Colnago and Gazelle in no particular order. Hmm, this isn't getting any easier :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:12 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 1468
Location: The Lovely Lincolnshire Wolds and by the sea in Sussex
I'm in trouble!

I detect a clear bias toward"foreign"bicycles here.

As opposed to"English"or British ones.

Oooh...eerrr; now have I got anything blingy and foreign to attract the voters :D .

God help me, I'm gonna have to become a"collector".

Rk.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:58 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:41 pm
Posts: 98
Location: north west
"quote"
God help me, I'm gonna have to become a"collector".

Rk.
_________________
Founder of The Last Bastion Society and owner of - 1985 SBDU Raleigh SdeC. 1984 LU Raleigh Corsa. 1982 Holdsworth Classic 531sl. 1980 Allin Stan Butler Special(ex Alex Flinders)one of Allin's last. 1978 Holdsworth Mistral. 1964 Allin Stan/Keith Butler"Belgique"Special. 1967 Geoffrey Butler. 1955 R.O Harrison Super Circuit. 1952 Hobbs of Barbican Ladyweight(Wife's). 1951 Hobbs of Barbican Clubweight. 1949 Hobbs of Barbican Sportsweight. 1947 Hetchins Super Special. MTB's 1988 Specialized Stumpjumper,Chas Roberts repaint. 1988 Muddy Fox Courier(Wife's).

^^I'll be happy to help you avoid this dreaded fate by buying that harrison off you ^^ :wink:


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 Post subject: Collector - not me!
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 9:11 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 1468
Location: The Lovely Lincolnshire Wolds and by the sea in Sussex
Respect.

I could possible be persuaded to part with it...it was bought new by a member of my family...I try to kid myself that I'm not a"collector"because of these connections.

Cheers, Rk.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:48 pm 
retrobike rider
retrobike rider
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Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:17 am
Posts: 1303
Location: Lewes, East Sussex
roadking wrote:
I'm in trouble!

I detect a clear bias toward"foreign"bicycles here.

As opposed to"English"or British ones.

Oooh...eerrr; now have I got anything blingy and foreign to attract the voters :D .

God help me, I'm gonna have to become a"collector".

Rk.


Not from me! I have voted Raleigh's last two months and a Mercian this! Although nearly went for the Raleigh again :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:55 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 1468
Location: The Lovely Lincolnshire Wolds and by the sea in Sussex
wired99 wrote:
Not from me! I have voted Raleigh's last two months and a Mercian this! Although nearly went for the Raleigh again :D


Hi wired,

my comment; a little tongue in cheek.

Rk.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:41 am 
retrobike rider
retrobike rider
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Joined: Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:17 am
Posts: 1303
Location: Lewes, East Sussex
Snap! :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:32 am 
Pumpy's Bear
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Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:03 pm
Posts: 8145
Location: Hereford
Very close result between the two front runners and the Colnago, with very few comments, has slipped under the radar.

A really worthy winner but can we have a Special Month with the theme 'Mark can't enter one of his beautiful bikes' to give the rest of us a chance :D


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