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Coolwall Jan 2011 - Shimano MTB groupsets
Cool 62%  62%  [ 98 ]
Uncool 38%  38%  [ 61 ]
Total votes : 159
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:21 am 
Old School Grand Master
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hollister wrote:
al wrote:

Life must be one long disappointment for you.

al. :lol:


life? no.

you? very much so


===============================================

thanks to the people that actually put some thought into their replies. its been a fun read


ho hum!

al. :roll:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:55 pm 
Gold Trader
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Shimano cool? No, not cool for me. Do I like it, yes I like it, works well, looks nice and replacement is good. XTRm900/XT73* series do it for me. But 8) ....nah, dont think so.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:25 pm 
retrobike rider
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Neil wrote:
hollister wrote:
^proof that an argument of emotion can be compelling when done right. well done

until you got to the FACT part

That was me being facetious. It's one of my many flaws, being too subtle ;-)

Don't be distracted, though - just 'cos I said it in jest, doesn't make it any less true.


So is the "doesn't make it any less true" facetious, also?

Cos "true" is synomymous with "FACT"

What you have described is a personal opinion on what the criteria are for coolness - for you

Not 'facts' or 'truths'

- And to be honest your post is highly dictatorial

- And doesn't offer any insight whatsoever

That is utterly uncool

You can have a different criteria for cool if you want. But you can't tell me that you have the truth. I personally think your criteria is bollocks

You should have read some previous posts perhaps to see that it is alreday acknowledged not everyone has same criteria for things being 'cool'

However, it is my opinion that if given free choice you go out select stuff for use on your precious steeds - and you have gone and selected stuff that your 'truth' and 'facts' tell you are uncool...

Then I'd be intrigued to read an explanation of that

If Shimano isn't cool to you, get rid of it all... Do it... Do it now


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:38 pm 
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hydorah wrote:
Neil wrote:
hollister wrote:
^proof that an argument of emotion can be compelling when done right. well done

until you got to the FACT part

That was me being facetious. It's one of my many flaws, being too subtle ;-)

Don't be distracted, though - just 'cos I said it in jest, doesn't make it any less true.


So is the "doesn't make it any less true" facetious, also?

Cos "true" is synomymous with "FACT"

What you have described is a personal opinion on what the criteria are for coolness - for you

Not 'facts' or 'truths'

- And to be honest your post is highly dictatorial

- And doesn't offer any insight whatsoever

That is utterly uncool

You can have a different criteria for cool if you want. But you can't tell me that you have the truth. I personally think your criteria is bollocks

You should have read some previous posts perhaps to see that it is alreday acknowledged not everyone has same criteria for things being 'cool'

However, it is my opinion that if given free choice you go out select stuff for use on your precious steeds - and you have gone and selected stuff that your 'truth' and 'facts' tell you are uncool...

Then I'd be intrigued to read an explanation of that

If Shimano isn't cool to you, get rid of it all... Do it... Do it now


Anyone got a f****** rope?

al. :roll:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:44 pm 
Special Retro Guru
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hydorah wrote:
Neil wrote:
hollister wrote:
^proof that an argument of emotion can be compelling when done right. well done

until you got to the FACT part

That was me being facetious. It's one of my many flaws, being too subtle ;-)

Don't be distracted, though - just 'cos I said it in jest, doesn't make it any less true.

So is the "doesn't make it any less true" facetious, also?

Probably not - not sure facetiousness was quite where I was going, there.
hydorah wrote:
Cos "true" is synomymous with "FACT"

I think there's a subtle difference, though.

Just because I may have been being facetious, arrogant, hubristic, doesn't detract from it actually being true...
hydorah wrote:
What you have described is a personal opinion on what the criteria are for coolness - for you

Au contraire...

I'm merely parroting the general concept of "cool", and the one which this one begs, borrows and steals from - the TG coolwall.
hydorah wrote:
Not 'facts' or 'truths'

How is it not true that the concept of "cool" is distinct and different from being "something I like" or "something I think is good"? Otherwise, we'd just have a likewall or a goodwall.

But we don't. We have a coolwall, for all it's glory, charm, and failings.
hydorah wrote:
- And to be honest your post is highly dictatorial

Oh but that was part of it's charm.

And it was deliberate.

And from the reading of your reply, it worked ;-)
hydorah wrote:
- And doesn't offer any insight whatsoever

Sorry, gotta take issue with you, there.

It offers plenty of insight.

FACT.
hydorah wrote:
That is utterly uncool

See what I mean about not really getting it?

Not adding any insight would actually contribute to it being cool.
hydorah wrote:
You can have a different criteria for cool if you want. But you can't tell me that you have the truth. I personally think your criteria is bollocks

Good for you.

How's that working out for you?
hydorah wrote:
You should have read some previous posts perhaps to see that it is alreday acknowledged not everyone has same criteria for things being 'cool'

That's OK - everybody has the right to be wrong.

But fair play - people not wanting to really get it, is no sin. But what they, and from the sounds of it, you, really want is a "I LIKE" wall, or a "goodwall".
hydorah wrote:
However, it is my opinion that if given free choice you go out select stuff for use on your precious steeds - and you have gone and selected stuff that your 'truth' and 'facts' tell you are uncool...

Then I'd be intrigued to read an explanation of that

1. I'm far from convinced you'd be intrigued.

2. Whether I understand "cool", or not, doesn't mean I live my life by it, or even buy into such a nebulous, peurile notion.
hydorah wrote:
If Shimano isn't cool to you, get rid of it all... Do it... Do it now

You still don't really get this "cool" thing, do you.

Shimano isn't cool, simply because on the whole, it isn't. Doesn't mean it isn't good. Doesn't mean I don't like some of it. Doesn't mean I'm remotely concerned if all my bikes are uncool or have uncool bits on.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:47 pm 
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Some of this lot couldn't buy a clue Neil.



al. :wink:


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 Post subject: This debate
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:04 pm 
retrobike rider
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OK so the question is asked: Shimano MTB groupsets are they cool or uncool?

People vote, it's easy enough cool? uncool? point and click. Job done

Some people who feel they have something to offer a debate on the topic will comment with their opinion, some will agree some will contadict, whatever it's all a debate

It's interesting to know what other people think

Some guys like you Neil, will attempt to have a different debate

A semantic debate about what the nature of cool is

So bloody repetitive!

The novelty here though, is as you already identified you are arrogant

You see your opinions as 'facts' - you were called out on it - and pretended it was a joke

But you have subsequently restated those opinions in similar terms

You have misunderstood the question and you haven't said anything some people haven't said already, which is why I queried whether you'd even read prior posts

The exception in your case being that you have said it in the most ignorant manner with no technical justification of that opinion

- Beyond vague metaphors and analogy drawn with actors and TV shows

Do you understand what I mean?


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 Post subject: Re: This debate
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:32 pm 
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hydorah wrote:
OK so the question is asked: Shimano MTB groupsets are they cool or uncool?

People vote, it's easy enough cool? uncool? point and click. Job done

Some people who feel they have something to offer a debate on the topic will comment with their opinion, some will agree some will contadict, whatever it's all a debate

It's interesting to know what other people think

Some guys like you Neil, will attempt to have a different debate

A semantic debate about what the nature of cool is

So bloody repetitive!

The novelty here though, is as you already identified you are arrogant

You see your opinions as 'facts' - you were called out on it - and pretended it was a joke

But you have subsequently restated those opinions in similar terms

You have misunderstood the question and you haven't said anything some people haven't said already, which is why I queried whether you'd even read prior posts

The exception in your case being that you have said it in the most ignorant manner with no technical justification of that opinion

- Beyond vague metaphors and analogy drawn with actors and TV shows

Do you understand what I mean?


I'd hate to be stuck in a lift with you.

You could send a glass eye to sleep.

al. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: This debate
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:47 pm 
retrobike rider
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Quote:

I'd hate to be stuck in a lift with you.

You could send a glass eye to sleep.

al. :roll:


Why are you making insults Al?

What's the problem?


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 Post subject: Re: This debate
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:51 pm 
Special Retro Guru
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hydorah wrote:
OK so the question is asked: Shimano MTB groupsets are they cool or uncool?

People vote, it's easy enough cool? uncool? point and click. Job done

Some people who feel they have something to offer a debate on the topic will comment with their opinion, some will agree some will contadict, whatever it's all a debate

It's interesting to know what other people think

Some guys like you Neil, will attempt to have a different debate

A semantic debate about what the nature of cool is

Rubbish - I didn't add any "semantic" comments on the nature of cool, until about page 6 of this, when it had become firmly established that the "debate" had veered off from whether Shimano was cool, but instead had digressed to whether people liked their kit, whether some of it was good.
hydorah wrote:
The novelty here though, is as you already identified you are arrogant

Bows.

Why thank you.
hydorah wrote:
You see your opinions as 'facts' - you were called out on it - and pretended it was a joke

No - that's incorrect. I merely pointed out the confusion some people were clearly displaying.

As to my opinion, well that's incidental.

And I didn't pretend anything was a joke, there was no pretense there, as far as I'm concerned it was always intended as a joke.

Just so happens it was true, but again, that is somewhat incidental.
hydorah wrote:
But you have subsequently restated those opinions in similar terms

Well I can pretend it's not the truth, if that's what you prefer.
hydorah wrote:
You have misunderstood the question and you haven't said anything some people haven't said already

I didn't misunderstand anything.

My post, that you clearly object to so much, all the time I'm boggling that you seem to have missed that it was meant to make people object, a little, maybe to think that these votes aren't about whether people like something, aren't about whether something is good, but whether the something is "cool".

I already voted, very early on, I only commented, because there was so much nonsense being raised, and in fairness, I'm far from the only person to point that out.
hydorah wrote:
The exception in your case being that you have said it in the most ignorant manner with no technical justification of that opinion

The irony, there, in you saying that, in a discussion about whether something is cool - I trust that hasn't gone unnoticed.

Was that a bit of cheeky humour, or pure accident?
hydorah wrote:
Do you understand what I mean?

I understand perfectly what you mean. I only wish you understood the purpose of the vote...

But hey - no need for you to get all feet stampy about it - cool ;-) it, tiger. Looking at the vote, Shimano may well be voted cool - which is why votes don't really work. All that happens is people vote for things they like, or are good. It only works, when those that define the rationale, have an autocracy about it, like Clarkson (in his buffoon TV character persona) on TG.


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