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Coolwall Jan 2011 - Shimano MTB groupsets
Cool 62%  62%  [ 98 ]
Uncool 38%  38%  [ 61 ]
Total votes : 159
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:28 pm 
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Talking about GROUPSETS

The whole concept of complete groupset has NEVER been cool!
Specially not BITD

Guy that showed up for saturday ride on bike with complete groupset of any brand and any level got this :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
behind his back
and it showed just one thing: The guy doesnt have clue about anything. he just rides what he bought in the shop.


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 Post subject: Re: It's cool
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:29 pm 
retrobike rider
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doctor-bond wrote:
hydorah wrote:
OK that's cool agreed

However, it's not an MTB groupset

I'll also bet the tubing used lacks any of the mechanical properties required for serious off road use


:) I'm sure it's made of Prestige.

But if we can agree on an image of cool, then the next job is to work out how much of the Shimano range could make such a claim.

Early XTR? Yep. Deerhead stuff: why not? 600 headset with the beveled lockring? Oh yes. Even though I've missed a bunch more cool examples, they still can't outweigh the vast abundance of servicable, mediocre, ubiquitous stuff associated with the brand.

So overall, too much:

Image

not enough Miles.


Now this is interesting because I agree with you, right up to the point where you make the judgement that they are uncool

All the 'get you to work OK' mediocrity is produced not under a sub-brand it's Shimano, this while also being responsible for properly cool stuff makes them even cooler in my book

To me late 80's early '90s the LXs and upwards are cool, up to mid nineties STX RC and upwards after that I'm not paying close enough attention!

Stuff I care about gets XT for the drive train at least and nothing not in the range I mentioned for other components

I don't want or desire the mundano does the job OK kit - it goes on bikes that I sell as reliable transport

But Shimano haven't lost their edge in the high end for making all that stuff

Try to come up with a parallel exaple? very hard indeed

Shimano's upper echelon stuff is cool, therefore Shimano are cool in my judgement

And the fact that even the Shimano haters use the stuff at least in part, well it's a unique situation


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:30 pm 
BoTM Winner / PoTM Winner
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al wrote:
A plum is a soft fruit.

Any clearer?

al.





I really like plums. :D


that's the most well thought out argument you've presented so far in this thread :roll:

for some silly reason I was expecting better


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 Post subject: Re: Geekery
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:35 pm 
retrobike rider
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CAPIN wrote:
@hydorah

yeah, i saw Pirates of Silicon Valley.
Funny and very informative

guess what machine im writing it on :lol:


Fair enough! I'm gonna have to check that out

Macs actually work, so good on yer!

They are based on BSD Unix, I bet you knew that


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:39 pm 
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hollister wrote:
al wrote:
A plum is a soft fruit.

Any clearer?

al.





I really like plums. :D


that's the most well thought out argument you've presented so far in this thread :roll:

for some silly reason I was expecting better


Life must be one long disappointment for you.

al. :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:50 pm 
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al wrote:

Life must be one long disappointment for you.

al. :lol:


life? no.

you? very much so


===============================================

thanks to the people that actually put some thought into their replies. its been a fun read


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:00 am 
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Still can't get my head around people not really getting the concept of these votes - whether the concept is daft, puerile, or decidedly uncool in iteslf, or not...

This isn't a vote on whether something is good. It's not whether things are objectively sound. In fact, the opposite can be solid contributory reasons why things are cool - Campag MTB groupsets are a great example.

An example where the outcome was clearly wrong, though, and salient where Shimano are being discussed was when the poll went so wrong on Biopace - clearly they were cool, partly because it wasn't very good.

It's not a vote on whether you like something. It's not a vote on whether something was any good.

It's a vote on whether something is cool.

So... Tyler Durden - cool; Steve McQueen and his baseball and glove in the "cooler" - cool; Mulder singing the theme to Shaft in the X-Files (episode 12, season 5, "Bad Blood") - cool; me knowing what episode Mulder sung Shaft - decidedly uncool.

That's how it works. No ifs, no buts - it just is.

The moment you have to rationalise it, give it some measure, some rationale, it's gone beyond the domain of being "cool".

When I see people arguing about whether some aspect is "good", whether something worked well, or was a good design, I know the aren't really getting it. What you're looking for is a "GOODWALL" - then you can vote to your heart's content on things that are good, bad, and indifferent.

Soooo.... Shimano as a whole is uncool - sorry, just is. That's life.

Perhaps there's individual bits and bobs that escape that verdict, but the sum of the parts (so to speak): uncool.

FACT.

Next.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:08 am 
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Neil wrote:
Still can't get my head around people not really getting the concept of these votes - whether the concept is daft, puerile, or decidedly uncool in iteslf, or not...

This isn't a vote on whether something is good. It's not whether things are objectively sound. In fact, the opposite can be solid contributory reasons why things are cool - Campag MTB groupsets are a great example.

An example where the outcome was clearly wrong, though, and salient where Shimano are being discussed was when the poll went so wrong on Biopace - clearly they were cool, partly because it wasn't very good.

It's not a vote on whether you like something. It's not a vote on whether something was any good.

It's a vote on whether something is cool.

So... Tyler Durden - cool; Steve McQueen and his baseball and glove in the "cooler" - cool; Mulder singing the theme to Shaft in the X-Files (episode 12, season 5, "Bad Blood") - cool; me knowing what episode Mulder sung Shaft - decidedly uncool.

That's how it works. No ifs, no buts - it just is.

The moment you have to rationalise it, give it some measure, some rationale, it's gone beyond the domain of being "cool".

When I see people arguing about whether some aspect is "good", whether something worked well, or was a good design, I know the aren't really getting it. What you're looking for is a "GOODWALL" - then you can vote to your heart's content on things that are good, bad, and indifferent.

Soooo.... Shimano as a whole is uncool - sorry, just is. That's life.

Perhaps there's individual bits and bobs that escape that verdict, but the sum of the parts (so to speak): uncool.

FACT.

Next.

^proof that an argument of emotion can be compelling when done right. well done

until you got to the FACT part


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:55 am 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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After reading the thread and taking in both sides I've had to go uncool :( Even though the groupsets I mentioned earlier (early 90's DX/XT/XTR) are defo cool imo the company as a whole can not be classed as cool. Too many parts that just do a job rather then 'go the extra mile'. Still love the big 'S' though and have their gear on all my bikes.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:13 am 
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hollister wrote:
^proof that an argument of emotion can be compelling when done right. well done

until you got to the FACT part

That was me being facetious. It's one of my many flaws, being too subtle ;-)

Don't be distracted, though - just 'cos I said it in jest, doesn't make it any less true.


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