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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:29 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 1466
Location: The Lovely Lincolnshire Wolds and by the sea in Sussex
Miguello wrote:
Well, thanksfor the info!! Had no idea it was that much earlier. I can say that it is damn light!! With the Books, brass bell, and toe clips added after the pictures, it is STILL under 25 pounds. Like 24 pounds 8 ounces.


I did say this frame was 60s or 70s, and raised the decal query. Be clear GBC did not source frames from Woodrup (Leeds) - did I not say that I used to walk past (and go into this shop) on a regular basis throughout the 70s?

Frame number, fork query?

Rk.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:42 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:36 pm
Posts: 68
Location: Houston, Texas. "Merica"
Fork is original as far as I know, if it's not they did a hell of a job matching the paint? Looks very close to the crown on my 74/75 Raleigh Competition, and does have eyelets. I'm also soon to be the proud owner of a Raleigh Professional frame. My grail bike pretty much. Got to start from scratch on the build, but it's SO going to be worth it.

I will have to get the frame number in the morning. I promise. Right now it's 20 til midnight, and my mercury vapor light is DOA(or OPD). The walk to the garage is pitch black.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:51 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:36 pm
Posts: 68
Location: Houston, Texas. "Merica"
Pre clean/build pics...

Image

Image

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:14 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:36 pm
Posts: 68
Location: Houston, Texas. "Merica"
Didn't catch the "must be tall" comment. It's a little tall for me, but not going to kick it out of the garage for it. I am 6'1", and the seatpost is at the height I ride it, in the pictures. Being 46 next month, I don't go much for the race position anyway, unless I am feeling good. I have more modern bikes for that, though. Mid to late eighties. :wink:


Last edited by Miguello on Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:03 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:36 pm
Posts: 68
Location: Houston, Texas. "Merica"
Frame number is either 2396, or 2296. The second digit is a half stamp, looks like half a question mark, which is fitting. haha...It's also obscured a little by paint. Looks hand stamped, not in a perfect line, but close.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 4:48 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:36 pm
Posts: 68
Location: Houston, Texas. "Merica"
So can any info for the year model be derived from the four digit number? I can find no S/N info online at all.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:22 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 1466
Location: The Lovely Lincolnshire Wolds and by the sea in Sussex
Miguello wrote:
So can any info for the year model be derived from the four digit number? I can find no S/N info online at all.


I often feel I'm speaking in an empty room...my final comment -

1. Geoffrey Butler did not build frames, they bought them in from the trade: this means (put crudely) that they put their decals on another builder's frame.
2. We do not know that this frame was supplied by GB, it may simply have GB decals on it.
3. Frame serial numbers are very tricky in this context for obvious reasons (we do not know the builder - many trade frames did not have the same identifying number as the builder's own frames).
4. GB sourced framesets from a particular group of suppliers/builders and Roberts were not one of them.

I knew GB very well, and despite that they did not build frames they were a well regarded shop, and notwithstanding the fact that I walked/cycled past the shop twice a day for 6/7 years they were a part of my cycling landscape for longer...another Croydon shop was my LBS though. Roberts cycles was never a shop in the same sense as GBC.

Tell your American cycling buddies it's a Roberts - they'll never know, after all it is the nation that put Mercedes Benz grilles on VW Bugs (I lived there for 18 months so qualified to comment) !

I could mention it also produced the biggest fraudster in the history of cycling but that would be churlish!

Rk.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:07 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:36 pm
Posts: 68
Location: Houston, Texas. "Merica"
Okay, I understand everything you are saying, apparently you feel the need to say it time and time again. I have gathered that Roberts likely never built a Geoffrey Butler frame. I also understand that Geoffrey Butler never built their own frames, I knew that before I posted it? I AM NOT going to tell anyone it's a Roberts built frame, if it's not. Okay? Whoever built it, it's still a high quality, and very light weight frame. Fully built it is WELL under the weight of most "average" bikes in that time period. Did Geoffrey also sell decal sets? That would be the only way I could see the decals not being original, as good quality reproduction decals have only been around the last 20 years, maybe less. The white on the decals is yellowed, so they were not applied recently, that much is certain. The frame color comes off on the polishing rag, and most quality bikes, even back to the mid seventies are clear coated. And for that matter, who would try to fraudulently replicate such an obscure brand name? What gain could anyone possibly see from that?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:21 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 1466
Location: The Lovely Lincolnshire Wolds and by the sea in Sussex
You've misunderstood the point(s) I've been trying to make - I've been trying to help you! There is no implication of"fraudulently replicating a brand name"; what nonsense.

Finally, I've not known (on any year frame that I'm aware of or own) frame paint to come off when polishing - unless it's been painted with old fashioned cellulose paint (or a DiY job).

Roadking.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:52 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:36 pm
Posts: 68
Location: Houston, Texas. "Merica"
I understand you're trying to help, but making cracks about Americans is neither a help, nor is it appreciated. If it is not a GB, and simply has GB decals on it, that would imply a fraudulent representation, would it not? Either way I would like to find out the builder of this frame, whether it be GB sourced or not. You asked for several bits of info, which I supplied to the best of my ability. I understand the point(s) you are making, you make them on every post? They have already been established, so mentioning them over and over is beating a dead horse.

Any paint that is not clear coated, will leave paint color on a rag, buffer, or anything you use to polish it with. It matters not what type of paint it is. Cellulose lacquer, acrylic lacquer, acrylic enamel, etc. I used to paint/detail cars for a living, so I know paint. Up to a point in the late sixties to early seventies, every bike, or car, or anything with a paint finish as a protective coating was a single stage process, and will therefore transfer color to whatever you're polishing it with.

BTW: My Grandmother on my Mother's side was killed in a VW Beetle before I ever had a chance to meet her. She was in the passengers side when the VW was hit head on by drunken idiot who drove up an exit ramp.... The car crumpled up like the tin can that it was. The Beetle is as unsafe as a Ford Pinto, and should have never been allowed to be imported into the US. They were (and still are) underpowered, and unsafe.


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