Retrobike Forum Index

It is currently Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:06 pm

* Login   * Register * Search  * FAQ



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 132 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 14  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:24 pm 
Old School Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:17 pm
Posts: 3775
Location: Norn Iron
Hi all,

Quite a few of you may know i have a Rossin Prestige Team frame which i acquired from an RB member last year. I have been doing some research in an attempt to date the frame before i commence any restoration. I have gathered up quite a bit of info (thanks to Deax, ScillySuffolk and many others - i better mention Mr Raleigh too!!!).

Here are a few pics to give you the idea what the frame looks like -

Image

Image

It seems Photobucket is acting up - i will post more later.

I have spoken to Rossin and they have advised that the frame is a team frame and they believed that -

"I've found a technical person that has been working here for a long time, and he has provided me with more information after having seen the pictures you sent:

a. This is a frame that goes back to the mid 80's, and it is a frame that has belonged to a professional team.
b. The number on the fork proves this: this number used to be inscribed in the forks over the years, until the frames became lighter and therefore the number was moved to beneath the BB.
c. This number may be the initials of the rider or of the team.
d. Also the little round metal part attached to the TT near the HT proves the team theory, as this is where the racing numbers were attached.
e. The team might have been Murella Rossin"

I have done some research on the teams but came to a standstill as i don't believe that the info is on the net - perhaps (and i stress PERHAPS) the frame was used by a rider called Stefano Bizzoni who rode for the Murella Rossin team in 1984 and 1985. I think i saw a team list for 1987 which he may have been in - but i have lost the links to this. I should add the forks have 'SB 336' stamped on them hence the focus on this rider.

If anyone has any knowledge of the race bike and/or pics etc i would really appreciate it. There are a few on google but the bikes are not the Prestige.

The Prestige is made of Tange Prestige steel with hexagonal tubing and was available to the public in 1992 (maybe 1991). It was available with Campagnolo Chorus RS or Shimano DA -

"Chorus RS is the second generation C-Record era Chorus group, strictly speaking RS is 1992 only: the RS prefix was dropped for '93 and '94." - thanks to Scilly Suffolk for that info.

The BB has not got the cut-out Rossin 'R' and the cables go through the BB. I have seen a pic of the Rossin brochure for 1987 - 1988 which shows my style of BB.

The rear spacing is 130mm exactly but, and here is where it gets odd, there is a dent (not a ding, a dent) in the chainstay and it might be the case that this was done to increase the width. When i decide the fate of the frame, this can be repaired. I doubt that it would be easy to get the chainstay replaced. Rossin were not able to say when they changed their spacing.

My theory is - this is a 1987 Murella Rossin Team bike but the spacing may prove this wrong (provided the dent was made to increase the spacing) - i originally thought it was 1983/84 but that seems too early - if it was raced before public release that would be a 9 year gap which seems excessive. The later Murella in 1987 makes more sense, but i could be completely wrong!!

So here is the plan -
1. Try and find out a date for the frame
2. If it is Murella - restore it in their colours
3. If the above fails, restore in a paint scheme of my choice

The frame has no chrome on it, apparently to keep weight down, i would like some chrome on the build and i have seen some great paintwork on the Mercian site. This is a long (ish) term build, i have a few other projects to complete before i actually begin this. I have gathered up an almost complete Shimano Dura Ace 7400 group set and once painted this will be a quickish build. No doubt there will be many queries from me as this progresses!!!!

Any info or pointers will, as always, be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Richard

p.s. more pics to follow when Photobucket works - grrrr


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:38 pm 
Old School Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:17 pm
Posts: 3775
Location: Norn Iron
More pics -

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

This last pic shows the dent in the chainstay.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:33 pm 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:10 pm
Posts: 669
Quote:
I doubt that it would be easy to get the chainstay replaced.

Like for like? unlikely. At the very least you will need to get that driveside dropout in alignment, judging from picture 5/8, before securing Dura-Ace on it, or between it and it's partner. Take a squint down the seatstays too, (with a camera, if you like).. I'm not intending to discourage, but IMO if that dent was done purposefully to increase rear spacing, it was done in desperation by a distracted person. Choose carefully who you get to straighten it out.. as far as that's possible..


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:42 pm 
rider | rBoTM Winner
rider | rBoTM Winner
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:42 pm
Posts: 5133
Location: Wakefield, Yorkshire
The Murella Rossin team appears in the team listings here for 1984 at least and Bizzoni is shown.

http://www.memoire-du-cyclisme.eu/

Look in the 'Equipes' section and 1984.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:59 am 
Old School Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:17 pm
Posts: 3775
Location: Norn Iron
Mr Torque,

Everything seems fine except for the actual dent; it may be the case that this was just a bad dent, but due to a lack of information i won't know for definite until the frame gets looked at by someone who knows. If the frame had an OLD/OLN of 130mm originally - it is a dent, if the OLD/OLN was less - it has been done deliberately. On a sepapate topic - i still have that item for you if you would PM me. Thanks.

Ned,

Little problem, my O-Level French really only allows me to order beer and a jambon sandwich. This link -

http://progettopistavintage.blogspot.co ... ossin.html

shows a Rossin Murella team in 1987. I am focusing on this team as the likely user of the bike but, again, without further clarification i may find i am stuck. Your link does not mention this team, i have no idea why.

Thanks,

Richard


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:34 am 
Old School Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:17 pm
Posts: 3775
Location: Norn Iron
A couple more pics -

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Another odd bit - the last two pics show the bottle mounts - the set on the seat tube are nicely done with a diamond but the down tube mounts look different - cheaper or rushed, if i am honest.

The remaining pics are here -

http://s1290.beta.photobucket.com/user/ ... 9299054785

Thanks for viewing, all info greatly appreciated, this may be another case for Sherlock Holmes....

Richard


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:26 pm 
rBoTM Winner
rBoTM Winner
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:18 pm
Posts: 2373
Location: California
Nice bike Richard, and good sleuthing on the background information.

A friend once said that when beginning a new build he listens for the bike to tell him what components to use. This one is screaming C-Record Delta...

Now I can hear you screaming, Oh yeah just what I need a $500 brakeset


Last edited by lewisfoto on Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:38 pm 
Old School Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:17 pm
Posts: 3775
Location: Norn Iron
Nooooo it screams Dura Ace!!!! I have Shimano ears!!!! A change at this point would be a financially bad decision!!! The public frame was available with Campag or DA - i prefer the second but i had planned using the aero DA - this has changed to 7400 - again i now have an expensive few bits spare - maybe for the Gazelle... pondering on

The sleuthinh by me involved asking everyone who may have some info on Rossins and i hit lucky a few times - as always the knowledge of the Rbers never fails to amaze me.

Steven, what colour scheme would you plan for it?

Thanks all,

Richard


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:14 pm 
Feature Bike
Feature Bike
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:13 pm
Posts: 1143
Location: York-ish UK
I wondered what had happened to this! It used to be mine - I sold it to someone on here, though perhaps not you TGR?

It certainly is a puzzle. Interesting response you got from Rossin, especially the SB reference. Although as you mention, it would be rather odd if were a mid 80's frame so far in advance of when they became publicly available. (When was Tange Prestige introduced?)

I'd always thought late 80's and did a bit of investigation around the dutch Tulip team who ran these. I gave the chap I sold it to some background that I'd dug up, but it was pics and team lists, nothing conclusive.

I'd say that as it's Japanese steel, a Japanese group would be fitting: my preference was for Suntour Superbe, but I never got round to that. I did briefly build it up with Gipiemme and found it an outstanding ride.

Looking forward to seeing what you do with it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:37 pm 
Old School Grand Master
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:17 pm
Posts: 3775
Location: Norn Iron
Hi Doc,

I think I PMed you last year about it. The Superbe Pro would be great but again costs would have to factor into it. I presume you don't have any of the info you provided to the last owner? Oh, and do you know anything about the dent in the chainstay?

I have a small hope that the necessary info does not become available and i will get the choice for the colour scheme myself but we will see what i can find out. Rossin would like pics for their records when i get it done and i would expect they would like restored to original. There is so little info about the Prestige it is difficult to know what would be best, i want to be sympathetic but i want the bike to ride too. It may be i go a respray in the colour it is in - which i think is original and maybe chrome fork ends, chainstay and something special at the forks - i will dream on.

Ideally I need someone who is fluent in Italian to look on their websites to find Stefano - he should know a bit about it.

Thanks for the input,

Richard


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 132 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 14  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

About Us

Follow Retrobike

Other cool stuff

All content © 2005-2015 Retrobike unless otherwise stated.
Cookies Policy.
bikedeals - the best bike deals in one place
FatCOGS - Fat Chance Owner's Group

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group