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 Post subject: Re: Longstaff Audax
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:03 pm 
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Road King can answer for himself, but the frame is made out of Columbus Zona. What's that to do with Reynolds?


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 Post subject: Re: Longstaff Audax
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:35 pm 
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Location: north hamshire
please let me clarify, i was talking about a review of a george longstaff which i read about in the 90/s. this is where i first heard of them . it had a mixture of reynolds tubing.. m would you say that was common on touring bikes of that time ?


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 Post subject: Re: Longstaff Audax
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:04 am 
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ah, I see now. So nothing to do with this frame.
As for your question about mixing tubes, it was not uncommon on custom frames, especially touring frames. Reynolds even had a special tubeset called Designer Select with mixed tubes at one point, but custom framebuilders in the UK had already been mixing tubes from different tubesets for years. Sometimes I suspect this may have been done partly out of expediency, using what was at hand, rather than for pure design reasons, but plenty of good framebuilders in the UK sometimes mixed tubes from different tubesets on custom frames because they felt a better frame could be built that way in certain cases.

I should re-word that. Mixing tubes wasn't so uncommon. I think what happened is that after Reynolds started introducing new tubesets, framebuilders started experimenting with mixing them, whereas for decades all that had been available was 531, although even 531 had different varieties that could and were mixed sometimes. I suppose there was also a commercial argument for offering custom frames with mixed tubes as it was a way of making an already custom frame even more unique and special.

Apologies to the OP for the digression. :facepalm:


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 Post subject: Re: Longstaff Audax
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:49 am 
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thank you , i wish i still had that review, lost in fire. longstaff now added to my fantasy/dream collection .. wow what a way to go.. whilst on a ride !


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 Post subject: Re: Longstaff Audax
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:54 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:38 pm
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Location: The Lovely Lincolnshire Wolds and by the sea in Sussex
oonaff wrote:
what does'nt make sense ? road king .


None of it actually.

Example"steel alloy"; steel is an alloy: you then mention 853, the criteria for selecting certain tubesets over others is not just about"lightness".

You then mention tubeset mixes, I'll deal with that one below.

Roadking.


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 Post subject: Re: Longstaff Audax
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:17 am 
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I did'nt say it was all about lightness road king ! and back on the subject of mixing tubes. Please, what would you use where and why ? for an audax frame? :)


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 Post subject: Re: Longstaff Audax
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 10:49 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:38 pm
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Location: The Lovely Lincolnshire Wolds and by the sea in Sussex
American Friend wrote:
ah, I see now. So nothing to do with this frame.
As for your question about mixing tubes, it was not uncommon on custom frames, especially touring frames. Reynolds even had a special tubeset called Designer Select with mixed tubes at one point, but custom framebuilders in the UK had already been mixing tubes from different tubesets for years. Sometimes I suspect this may have been done partly out of expediency, using what was at hand, rather than for pure design reasons, but plenty of good framebuilders in the UK sometimes mixed tubes from different tubesets on custom frames because they felt a better frame could be built that way in certain cases. I should re-word that. Mixing tubes wasn't so uncommon. I think what happened is that after Reynolds started introducing new tubesets, framebuilders started experimenting with mixing them, whereas for decades all that had been available was 531, although even 531 had different varieties that could and were mixed sometimes. I suppose there was also a commercial argument for offering custom frames with mixed tubes as it was a way of making an already custom frame even more unique and special. Apologies to the OP for the digression. :facepalm:


Correct, mixing tubes has for many decades been common practice amongst the top British framebuilders, and there is much confusion among enthusiasts about tubesets - Reynolds in particular. For example; Designer Select is not strictly speaking a tubeset, neither is 653; 653 is a concept tubeset and is a mix of 753 and 531 tubes - 653 replaced the 531 Professional tubeset which in turn replaced the 531 Superlight tubeset.

Reynolds would also produce one-off sets if the builder was sufficiently highly regarded. For example, I have a rare"Allin"that is built from a tubeset akin to 531 Superlight many years before that set became commercially available.

Apropos the question of tube suitability: that is surely an issue for the builder and the true use the rider will put the bicycle to? A top builder will want to consult the customer in some detail (notwithstanding the issue of correct sizing), as the SBDU did when I ordered my frame in the 1980s.

Roadking.

P.S Roadking, as in the American motorcycle of that name ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: Longstaff Audax
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:54 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:02 pm
Posts: 1273
Location: north hamshire
Thanks , it is indeed interesting stuff, i would so love to see some picts of your your bikes, in particular rayleigh/fignon and your hetchins.Cant find roadking motorbike...i popped into a motorcycle museum on my travels just outside christchurch the other day. .thank you once again. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Longstaff Audax
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:01 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 1470
Location: The Lovely Lincolnshire Wolds and by the sea in Sussex
oonaff wrote:
Thanks , it is indeed interesting stuff, i would so love to see some picts of your your bikes, in particular rayleigh/fignon and your hetchins.Cant find roadking motorbike...i popped into a motorcycle museum on my travels just outside christchurch the other day. .thank you once again. :)


Generally don't post pics of my bicycles...seems like showing off :-) , did post a pic once though; was relevant to a discussion on here.

A Roadking is a model (not a make) of motorcycle by Harley-Davidson, you'll see pics of that on the H-D website.

Rk.


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 Post subject: Re: Longstaff Audax
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:59 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 9:15 pm
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roadking wrote:
American Friend wrote:
ah, I see now. So nothing to do with this frame.
As for your question about mixing tubes, it was not uncommon on custom frames, especially touring frames. Reynolds even had a special tubeset called Designer Select with mixed tubes at one point, but custom framebuilders in the UK had already been mixing tubes from different tubesets for years. Sometimes I suspect this may have been done partly out of expediency, using what was at hand, rather than for pure design reasons, but plenty of good framebuilders in the UK sometimes mixed tubes from different tubesets on custom frames because they felt a better frame could be built that way in certain cases. I should re-word that. Mixing tubes wasn't so uncommon. I think what happened is that after Reynolds started introducing new tubesets, framebuilders started experimenting with mixing them, whereas for decades all that had been available was 531, although even 531 had different varieties that could and were mixed sometimes. I suppose there was also a commercial argument for offering custom frames with mixed tubes as it was a way of making an already custom frame even more unique and special. Apologies to the OP for the digression. :facepalm:


Correct, mixing tubes has for many decades been common practice amongst the top British framebuilders, and there is much confusion among enthusiasts about tubesets - Reynolds in particular. For example; Designer Select is not strictly speaking a tubeset, neither is 653; 653 is a concept tubeset and is a mix of 753 and 531 tubes - 653 replaced the 531 Professional tubeset which in turn replaced the 531 Superlight tubeset.

Reynolds would also produce one-off sets if the builder was sufficiently highly regarded. For example, I have a rare"Allin"that is built from a tubeset akin to 531 Superlight many years before that set became commercially available.

Apropos the question of tube suitability: that is surely an issue for the builder and the true use the rider will put the bicycle to? A top builder will want to consult the customer in some detail (notwithstanding the issue of correct sizing), as the SBDU did when I ordered my frame in the 1980s.

Roadking.

P.S Roadking, as in the American motorcycle of that name ;-)


Among the many bikes I’ve owned, I’ve had three custom frames made over a span of 40 years by some respected framebuilders in the UK. I’ve had an interest in steel frames for a while and know a bit about the subject, but I wouldn’t pretend to be an expert. Only a few very experienced framebuilders really understand all the tubesets and how to mix them for any particular frame, and even among them there were, and still are, disagreements about this. You’re right though about Designer Select. My wording was poor. Reynolds came up with the DS transfers so that framebuilders could stick them on frames they’d built with mixed tubes. It was a bit of failed marketing exercise I think. Incidentally, tubes were not just mixed from Reynolds. Framebuilders even mixed tubes from different manufacturers, usually Reynolds and Columbus but occasionally also other manufacturers like Vitus.

This has gone slightly OT. Maybe a new thread could be started, if not about mixing tubesets, then perhaps vintage motorcycles. Personally, I’d take a BSA, Norton, or Triumph any day over a Harley. :wink:


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