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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:24 pm 
Old School Hero
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Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:25 pm
Posts: 232
Location: North London
Well just for a change , the sun had his hat on today , so I took the opportunity to give the Cinelli a wash and polish . The Mrs kindly took some new pics , to give you some idea how the bike has evolved over the last 4 years.

original pics and story http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108583

This bike is most definitely ridden not hidden , and the 'retro-modern' build suits me just fine.

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The original wheels were a bit of a lash up , and as soon as I got the time , I built these ambrosio wheels .For the wheel building buffs , there Ambrosio Excellight SSC 28 hole rims laced into Ambrosio Zenith hubs , 2 cross with ACI stainless d/b spokes , with brass spoke washers on the rear , Campag Record Ti skewers complete the build. Wheels are shod with a pair of Schwalbe Ultremo R1 tyres with latex tubes , about as close to racing tubs as hp's can get.

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The ' foot long' MTB carbon seat post has long gone , replaced by a Campag Record Titanium post .

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Really had to have this , its a Cinelli pinocchio stem , chromeplated colombus tubing with a cinelli badge on the front , even sweeter I got for £12 on Ebay 'badly listed' and the right 12cm size . I even stripped the black anodizing of the Ambrosio handlebars , and polished them up to match the new stem .

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Another view of the bar and stem combo , I have also fitted a pair of Campag Centeur skeleton , work as good as they look . Check out the tidy cable installation .

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I've always been a fan of the Campag ultra-torque cranks , so when Tel of this parish came up with his gorgeous pantograph alloy custom jobs , I snapped a pair up . There fitted with a Campag Chorus 10 speed outer ring ,C-Record inner ring with Record alloy bolts . I also upgraded the Exustar pedals to the Ti spindle model .

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The bike is now the under 20lbs in weight , and I always look forward to the 4 hours of suffering we enjoy every Sunday :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:18 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:51 pm
Posts: 1072
Location: Brighton. UK.
That is a lovely bike, the detail in those frames is great, the seat stays/cluster is beautiful! I was umming and ahhing over a lovely '83 in baby blue on ebay a few months ago but just didn't have the money.
It's surprising just how light you can get these steel frames down to with some research. <20lbs is a good weight for an 'old' bike :wink:
Tel's engraving really does look the part :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:35 am 
r.B.o.T.M. & P.o.T.M. Winner
r.B.o.T.M. & P.o.T.M. Winner
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Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2010 1:41 pm
Posts: 2447
Location: Plymouth, UK
Lovely looking machine, although those tyre in my view are just horrible to look at. :)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:00 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 1466
Location: The Lovely Lincolnshire Wolds and by the sea in Sussex
Spokesmann wrote:
Lovely looking machine, although those tyre in my view are just horrible to look at. :)


Agreed, but I would worry about the hubs and the spokes - very large drillings in the hub, and plenty of daylight twixt hole and spoke asking for failure.

Rk.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:13 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:41 pm
Posts: 8218
Location: Cumbria
Are those brass washers to stop the spokes being pulled through the hub then Roadking ?

Shaun


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 12:23 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 1466
Location: The Lovely Lincolnshire Wolds and by the sea in Sussex
Midlife wrote:
Are those brass washers to stop the spokes being pulled through the hub then Roadking ?

Shaun


Hi Shaun.

I assume that's the idea, but no wheelbuilder I know would do that.

Where the spoke enters the hub is the weakest part of the wheel, in this build there's the bend in the spoke exacerbated by the (soft) brass washer and the large spoke hole.

Front hub's as bad.

Happy to be contradicted.

Rk.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:48 pm 
Old School Hero
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Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:25 pm
Posts: 232
Location: North London
Regarding my use of spoke washers ;
Extract from the book " The Art of Wheelbuilding " by Gerd Schraner

"As I mentioned in a previous chapter, most makes
of hubs are equipped with oversized holes in the
factory. If spokes have play when attached to
these hubs, then they will break when subjected
to long term loads. The user then presumes that
either the spoke was no good in the first place, or
the wheelbuilder didn't do his job properly. Blame
everyone, but not the hub manufacturer, right? So
it is up to us, the wheelbuilders, to correct the
mistakes of those hub manufacturers which
means that the solution has to he applied before
the problem even occurs.
Spokes with a diameter at the elbow of 2.0 mm
are usually used for high quality wheels. The ideal
spoke hole diameter in the hub flange is 2.3 mm
and this is usually ideal for 2.0 mm elbow diameter.
In order to prevent the play which causes damage
to the spokes, professional wheelbuilders use spe
cial brass washers (DT Praline., and we always
use them when the difference between the diame
ter of the spoke and the diameter of the hub's
spoke hole is greater than 0.3 mm. Of course, it is
not necessary to measure this everytime a spoke
is installed. Just insert a spoke into the hub and
move it to see if any play can be detected (tactile
test..
If the smalfest amount of play can be detected, or
when in doubt, use a washer beneath every spoke
head. The tension causes the washer to adopt a
funnel shape as the washer centers the spoke in
the hole . That also increases the thickness of the
flange.
If spokes equipped in this manner need to be
straightened during lacing, the spoke material is
not damaged. And the result is a spoke hub joint
which is guaranteed free of unnecessary play.
The rules are therefore:
Always use a washer
- when there is any tactile play,
- when using I .8 mm spokes and
- when in doubt.
Using washers will slightly reduce the length of
the spokes, and this can be compensated by
selecting spokes that are I mm longer.
You seldom see a professional, manually-buifd
wheel without washers. They don't just Shine like
gold, they're worth their weight in gold to the
wheelbuilders and riders too!"

Great book if you get the chance to read it , this guy builds wheels for pro's and works with DT swiss spokes and is generally considered a " wheel guru" .


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:44 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:38 pm
Posts: 1466
Location: The Lovely Lincolnshire Wolds and by the sea in Sussex
Don't know"your"guy, but my wheels are built by a former Tour de France , Six-Day, and Classics mechanic (well-known when traditional spoked wheels were commonplace).

I also use a former wheelbuilder to the BCF, neither have used washers - I get the point about washers, but why not purchase hubs that are built to the correct tolerances for a typical build?

Adding washers is merely compensating for a poor quality hub surely?

Roadking.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:14 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:02 pm
Posts: 345
Location: London
That frame is absolutely AMAZING
lugs and forks - lush...


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