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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:11 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:56 pm
Posts: 1032
Location: West Yorkshire
bigpantswheels wrote:
I was just reading an article about a company that does repairs on broken carbon frames. They said they were repairing 30 to 80 frames per month. Yes I said per month! No thanks, I'll stay with my 1987 steel Bertoni


How many repairs on steel frames do Bob Jackson do a month? How many people who break a steel frame bother to get it repaired rather than buy a new one?
What were the circumstances which caused the damage to the frames being repaired? Race damage will be much more likely on carbon frames than steel, certainly for road bikes anyway.

These questions need to be answered before we get too carried away with the "carbon is fragile" position.

I have just read a short interview with Tom Ritchey in which he says (in so many words) steel is better than carbon. Much of what he said rang true especially regarding the lengths manufacturers have to go to to make carbon bikes comfortable now they're all so stiff.

My next bike (for racing) will probably be carbon because getting a super stiff steel frame will be too expensive. What is the world coming to when a "space-age" material like carbon-fibre is more pricey than basic materials like steel? :roll:

Mark.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:42 pm 
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:48 pm
Posts: 1408
Location: Edinburgh
I've never used/tried an eBay carbon special but I know guys who have them.. Chinese cx carbon and been raced no issues.. Also road variants with no probs too.. Guess you pays your money !! I wouldn't personally ..
As for strength I crashed my Scott addict heavily at high speed few years ago I flipped over the bike catapulted down the road.. I had broken arm broken collarbone cracked ribs/severe internal bruising.. The bike had a slightly scuffed shifter :roll:

Had it for 2 more years without any issues :) So reckon carbon is pretty strong


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:40 pm 
Old School Hero
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Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:13 pm
Posts: 223
Location: ulster
reading the contris it seems that people forget that 90% of the carbon in our UK distributors is manufactured in the far east , they invested, they have the state of the art technology, so many of the so called classy Italian stallions are made out there albeit with Italian Threading.. the factories who make these frames get an order from a manufacturer in Europe be it ridley pinarello colnago for X number of frames and build them to the spec that was required, then they do a run for extra profit as they had the extra material in stock.. they know carbon frames in Europe are vastly overpriced, most distributors are trebling if not 4 times what the base stock cost would be.. i don't have a clone one, i do have a Ribble EVO pRO which comes from Tank cycles,Taiwan, and a genuine Pinarello which was built in the far east and says so on the frame, complete with Italian thread...if the manufacturers of the european stallions wish to retain their unique overpriced frame sets integrity they should have had a long look at the difference in business ethics that separate the cultures.. An Irish friend runs his very successful architect business in Hong Kong, there's a guy on the board who is tasked with ''sweeteners'' whenever they are dealing with any HK or Chinese clients.. his 2nd in command is a sharp HK lady, she shields him from the local ''questionable'' customs of doing business in the far east.. will


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:38 pm 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:03 pm
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Location: In the village
Think I'll stick to the trusty rusty Eddy Merckx steely.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:09 pm 
Old School Hero
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Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:13 pm
Posts: 223
Location: ulster
THat's probably a good idea if you feel that carbon is compromised, another friend Norris Lockley who was probably the first guy to bring carbon bikEs in any quantity from France EARLY 80'S into the UK, TVT ridden by lemond and hinault rebadged in their sponsors decal, TVT was born in the bowels of an armaments plant in France, guys who made carbon stuff, missiles, Aircraft parts etc for the French Govt.. they had been working with this fancy plastic since the 70's and in their view Norris said if its treated right it ages, seasons like wood.. all that said if your talking to a service engineer in the military either here or USA all aircraft carbon is dated and removed from use after so many hours.. you pays your money etc etc , OH . Norris and i have seen quite a few steel forks where the blades weren't just so or the steerer wasn't just caught in every part.. and these were in fancy light weight heralded builders work.. go figure.. will


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:17 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:59 pm
Posts: 349
Location: Chez Vegas, Derbyshire
Chinese frames can't be all that bad. Mike Hall beat the round the world record on a carbon Planet X Disco: http://road.cc/content/news/59716-interview-round-world-record-holder-mike-hall-talks-round-world-record-kit .

I've know one or two people who have had plastic bikes crack on them. I've also broken one or two steel framed bikes in the past. As for repairs - gone are the days when the LBS was also a frame builder - these days they would shrug and say repairing any frame, steel, alloy or carbon is a specialist job.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:31 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:55 pm
Posts: 93
Location: Blue Ridge mountains
Look at the market for 25 year old steel frames right now, what do you think the market will be for a 25 year old carbon frame in the future?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:33 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:59 pm
Posts: 349
Location: Chez Vegas, Derbyshire
bigpantswheels wrote:
Look at the market for 25 year old steel frames right now, what do you think the market will be for a 25 year old carbon frame in the future?


There's a market for TVT's, early Looks etc. Only time will tell.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:58 am 
Old School Hero
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Posts: 223
Location: ulster
Back some years ago i collected lt weights and restored them. few had terminal issues,good steel is great, accels and pollock in my view better than 531, rides better too.. and less rust.. 25yrs is nought for steel i worked with 1930's 40's and 50's stuff.. just because i run carbon and alloy doesn't ever mean i cannot appreciate good steel, i have master olympic Gilco Colnago, modern Taiwan steel and alloy.. there's a place for it all in my heart, there's a job for it too, there are Luddites in our midst who think that racing stuff carbon et al has no place in cycling,won't last, etc etc... perhaps they think that todays formula one car should still be made of multi steel 531 tubes.. race bikes are engineered to do a job.. period... as are formula ones, you don't need a McLaren to drive to work or to go to the shops ,or to take for a sunday outing with your friends but there are people out there who expect a full on race bike or a clone to do the work of a family car and still be doing it 30 years from now.. how many 30 year old race cars are in action in reality today apart from IN their own classic series.. that's how i justify it.. horses for courses.. will


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:31 am 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:03 pm
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Location: In the village
That's true bit I think they look ugly, so I'll stick to my skinny metal tubes.


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