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PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 3:07 pm 
Section Moderator & South West AEC
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i have just bought another frame and i have a build in mind for it.

but i need to check some compatibility issues with the great retro road masterminds! :D

my plan is to run a mix of campagnolo and mavic,

i have vento wheels in 8speed, a mavic starfish 631(?) chainset and 8 speed record mechs. i also have 8 speed ergo levers but i want to use frame levers on this build but i am open to not using the record mechs in favour of using mavic frame levers and mechs.

which models should i be looking for? give or take 1996 year model should be about right.

i have been searching various ebay sites etc but i have myself a little unsure as to what is compatible with what!

for example,

do mavic frame levers index ok with campagnolo 8 speed?
would a mavic rear mech index ok with campagnolo 8 speed frame levers?


also is there any obvious way to tell if campagnolo or mavic levers are 7 or 8 speed just by looking, the reason i ask that is some that i have seen have not been listed with how many gears they are supposed to work with.

i know my compatibility with campag but not so sure when mixing with a bit of mavic as i have never used any of their stuff other than wheels/rims etc.



any help greatly appreciated
:D


Last edited by jonnyboy666 on Fri Oct 07, 2011 11:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:54 pm 
B.o.T.M. Winner / Feature Bike
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Eight speed blocks from Campa, shimano and mavic are very simila . Ive never had problems linking the three together. the only thing that is worth noting is if you use a rear Campa mech then use Campa shifters, Shimano or Mavic rear then use Shimano or mavic shifters. Mavic is basically the same as Shimano, with the exception that, being french, it will refuse to work from time to time, and normally when you most want it to.

http://www.ctc.org.uk/desktopdefault.aspx?tabid=3946

This is always a good site to look at the pitch and spacing by manu. As you can see:

Cassette or Freewheel Sprocket Pitch

All modern 5 and 6-speed 5.50
All standard 7-speed 5.00
Campagnolo 8-speed 5.00
Shimano 8-speed 4.80
Campagnolo 9-speed 4.55
Shimano 9-speed 4.35
Campagnolo 10-speed 4.15
Shimano 10-speed 3.95
Campagnolo 11-speed 3.85

The sprocket spacing is so small as to be negligible. If you set up the shifter on the middle rear sprocket then by the time you shift all the way up or down you will only be out by .8mm and most floating jockeys support that. I do the same thing with my modern stuff - 10 speed shimano block with Campa 10 spd rear mech and 10 spd shifters.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:37 pm 
The Guv'nor
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Sound advice from Pete.

I've had trouble a-plenty trying to mix Mavic and Campag so do so with caution.

Of the setups you've suggested the campag 8 speed block, record mechs and ergo will of course work just fine.

I tried indexing the following without success. Sachs 8 speed screw on (assume 5mm spaced), mavic 840 mech, 8 speed record ergos. It didn't really work well although I've heard others have had luck with this setup. Ended up ditching the record ergos for simplex retrofriction downtube levers which of course worked just fine.

If you do go with what you suggest towards the end of your post I assume you'll have the following
-record cassette (assume 5.0 mm spaced)
-Mavic 840 mechs
-downtube levers.

You have two 'correct' options for downtube levers
-Mavic 821. 8 speed indexed, think these will be for a 4.8mm spaced cassette.
-Mavic 820 which are just retrofrictions without the engraved simplex logo. Retrofrictions are easy to find and will work perfectly being non-indexed.

Best thing you can do is try to ID a setup which you think will work on paper and give it a try.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:55 pm 
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Pete's 0.8mm misalignment is right. BUT
1 Campagnolo don't all have floating jockeys as Shimano has that patent stitched up. So Campag mechs tend to be a bit more tetchy.
2 It's all fine until the cables get grubby.

So if it's something ridden on dry days and fastidiously cleaned, mix away. If its a daily rider / winter / used in Cyclo cross etc tread carefully.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:37 pm 
Section Moderator & South West AEC
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thats sound advice guys, thanks.

incase you were wondering what it's for a . . . GAN team cougar boardman TT bike replica.

they used a mix of campag and mavic but mostly mavic (electronic, but i don't want the zap stuff) on the TT bikes. but as i am a campag boy i was leaning to this but having never done a mavic build i was considering using some where it could be compatible with some of the stuff i already have.

i have received the frame this morning, not quite as tidy as i had hoped but will be ok for the moment, i have also just won on the bay a mavic/wolber 650c front wheel and i was gonna use my vento 8speed for the rear so it's getting stuff compatible with 8speed rear cassette and mavic if possible just for the hell of it!

:D


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 8:57 pm 
The Guv'nor
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jonnyboy666 wrote:
thats sound advice guys, thanks.

incase you were wondering what it's for a . . . GAN team cougar boardman TT bike replica.

they used a mix of campag and mavic but mostly mavic (electronic, but i don't want the zap stuff) on the TT bikes. but as i am a campag boy i was leaning to this but having never done a mavic build i was considering using some where it could be compatible with some of the stuff i already have.

i have received the frame this morning, not quite as tidy as i had hoped but will be ok for the moment, i have also just won on the bay a mavic/wolber 650c front wheel and i was gonna use my vento 8speed for the rear so it's getting stuff compatible with 8speed rear cassette and mavic if possible just for the hell of it!

:D


Nice sounding project, this one you've had for a while?

Not sure what they had on their TT bikes. On the road bikes they ran 'tout mavic' or as you say a campag / mavic combo. According to tearsforgears > http://www.tearsforgears.com/2009/12/my ... ht-to.html and http://www.tearsforgears.com/2010/04/2- ... ubaix.html it'd probably be a mavic 571/2 hub with an exa-drive spine and campag 8 cassette, record mech and record ergos. Apparently you should also be able to index a mavic 8 speed cassette with a mavic 840 mech and sachs ergos (rebadged campag with a 4.8mm spacing).


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:05 am 
Section Moderator & South West AEC
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right then, been searching for pictures of chris boardman and gan etc for ages for reference for this build but i'm not getting the pics i want/need so if anyone knows anywhere i can get them that would be great.

this is what i have so far.

the first is my cougar from when i first got it, painted in the team gan colours with full campag record, this was 1995 and i went for this colour because of boardman. the frame i have received is the micro tt version of this road bike. i am sure i remember seeing boardman win a stage in a race around 1994/5 and was pictured on the bike on the front of cycling weekly or cycle sport magazines, so if anyone has a copy to scan or send me that would be great, i think the race was the "criterium du dauphine" but i am not 100% sure

what i have found out is this:-

in 1992 he was still riding on Cougar bikes with Campagnolo for the north wirral kodak team in red and yellow kit.

then in 1993 he went to team Gan which at the time were riding Lemond bikes in yellow and blue with a campag/mavic mix although for the first 6 months or so he was still riding a cougar but in the colours pictured below.

in 1994 the bikes were still Lemond in blue/yellow again campag/mavic mix with cinelli parts

in 1995 they changed to Eddy Merckx bikes in blue again with campag/mavic/cinelli mix

these bikes continued for 1996 and 1997

then in 1998 the bikes were still Eddy Merckx but white with a Mavic/Dura Ace mix

then the team became Credit Agricole with Look frames with shimano Dura Ace through out.

i bought my cougar at the latter end of 1994 as a 1995 model but i specifically asked for the Gan paint.

anyway here's some pics to show what boardman and the team were riding (mainly looking at soec as opposed to frame though)

:D


Attachments:
cougar gan team colour.jpg
cougar gan team colour.jpg [ 156.75 KiB | Viewed 6833 times ]
lemond and boardman team gan.jpg
lemond and boardman team gan.jpg [ 40.38 KiB | Viewed 6833 times ]
hv team gan 2.jpg
hv team gan 2.jpg [ 47.51 KiB | Viewed 6833 times ]
hv team gan.jpg
hv team gan.jpg [ 49.83 KiB | Viewed 6833 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:07 am 
Section Moderator & South West AEC
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more pics :)


Attachments:
team gan mavic and campag.jpg
team gan mavic and campag.jpg [ 54.61 KiB | Viewed 6831 times ]
team gan boardman.jpg
team gan boardman.jpg [ 45.37 KiB | Viewed 6831 times ]
lemond team gan.jpg
lemond team gan.jpg [ 36.35 KiB | Viewed 6831 times ]
gan team boy! yes that's me!.jpg
gan team boy! yes that's me!.jpg [ 74.73 KiB | Viewed 6831 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:12 am 
Section Moderator & South West AEC
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Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:33 pm
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Location: new forest
more :)


Attachments:
lotus sport 110 with mavic mektronic.jpg
lotus sport 110 with mavic mektronic.jpg [ 61.42 KiB | Viewed 6829 times ]
lotus mavic campag mix.gif
lotus mavic campag mix.gif [ 62.85 KiB | Viewed 6829 times ]
boardman riding a campg equipped cougar.jpg
boardman riding a campg equipped cougar.jpg [ 80.8 KiB | Viewed 6829 times ]
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2011 12:27 am 
Section Moderator & South West AEC
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just got in touch with a friend who is a photographer for cycling+, he's following the Tour right now! 8) he's gonna try and find out some info for me!

cheers Robin your a star! :D


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