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The eBay Batavus Professional's condition is >>>
1 = from the bottom of the canal 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
2 = total crap 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
3 = very poor 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
4 = poor 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
5 = unsufficient 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
5.5 = mediocre 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
6 = sufficient 6%  6%  [ 2 ]
7 = okay 26%  26%  [ 8 ]
8 = good 35%  35%  [ 11 ]
9 = very good 26%  26%  [ 8 ]
10 = excellent 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 31
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:20 am 
Concours Judge
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Condition judgements are subject to subjectivism. Browse around in the web's marketplaces and it becomes obvious to you within a blink of the eye.

Lets make an attempt to come to a more common understanding of the concept of condition judgements. I thought with help of cases or examples it would be fun to do.

Lets agree on a 1 to 10 scale, where:

1 = from the bottom of the canal
2 = total crap
3 = very poor
4 = poor
5 = unsufficient
5.5 = mediocre
6 = sufficient
7 = okay
8 = good
9 = very good
10 = excellent

We start with a case: Give this Batavus your judgement for condition >>>

eBay Batavus Professional

You can give your judgement by voting in the poll. Also feel free to motivate and discuss.


Last edited by Elev12k on Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:25 am 
Section Moderator & South West AEC
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good idea mel, trying to bring some common ground to the descriptive world! i've bought things that have been described as good but have been utter crap when recieved! likewise i have bought stuff decribed as good that have been perfect!!

swings and roundabouts i suppose!! :D


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:38 am 
King of the DuckBoard
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i'd say good. worrying point is round the gear levers/head tube.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:51 pm 
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8. Chainirings look pretty worn to me and would probably not run smoothly with a new chain.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:54 pm 
King of the Skip Monkeys
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6. dont like the red or the worn parts or the rust.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:32 pm 
The Guv'nor
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Great idea Melvin.

I've seen this done on other forums with some success. A scale has been devised to give the buyer an indicataion as to the condition of the item. The key for me would be it has to be quantifiable. So I would suggest we setup something along the lines of

10 - New and boxed.
9 - New and unboxed, may show marks from storage etc.
8 - Very light use. No corrosion or other marks. Could pass for new.

Down to...



1 - Scrap.May as well chuck it.


Anyhow, you get the idea. Needs soem more thought but what do you reckon...


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 11:02 pm 
MacRetro rider
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fantastic idea, especially for frames.

I rate this a good as it is what I would expect from a bike of this age (does age come into it?) ....

Slight pitting to chrome, what looks like surface rust at head tube lugs, the odd chip and visibly worn drive chain and tyres(they look knacked).

I would also ask for more info on the mark on top of the chainstay visible through the chainrings but I suspect this is oil/dirt build up.

it is more difficult to rate parts though as most (unlike the chainrings) sometimes show very little visual wear when they can be completely jiggered.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:11 pm 
Concours Judge
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John wrote:
Great idea Melvin.

I've seen this done on other forums with some success. A scale has been devised to give the buyer an indicataion as to the condition of the item. The key for me would be it has to be quantifiable. So I would suggest we setup something along the lines of

10 - New and boxed.
9 - New and unboxed, may show marks from storage etc.
8 - Very light use. No corrosion or other marks. Could pass for new.

Down to...



1 - Scrap.May as well chuck it.


Anyhow, you get the idea. Needs soem more thought but what do you reckon...


John,

With those descriptions I can think of many flaws, for example:

- concours winning examples could be an absolute 10. In this system they aren't.
- some stuff never came in a box, like custom specced bicycles, tyres and stuff from a bulk packaging
- stuff sitting in a box can be became dry or have faded solely by aging, UV or whatever. It can also have been out the box for a while or box could be non authentic, but sought with the part.
- the system suggests 10 is more than 9, but I personally absolutely do not care about a box

The later could be solved by for example replacing 1-10 by a, b, c and so on, but than still ability to describe condition is limited and often inaccurate in cases.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:20 pm 
The Guv'nor
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Elev12k wrote:
John wrote:
Great idea Melvin.

I've seen this done on other forums with some success. A scale has been devised to give the buyer an indicataion as to the condition of the item. The key for me would be it has to be quantifiable. So I would suggest we setup something along the lines of

10 - New and boxed.
9 - New and unboxed, may show marks from storage etc.
8 - Very light use. No corrosion or other marks. Could pass for new.

Down to...



1 - Scrap.May as well chuck it.


Anyhow, you get the idea. Needs soem more thought but what do you reckon...


John,

With those descriptions I can think of many flaws, for example:

- concours winning examples could be an absolute 10. In this system they aren't.
- some stuff never came in a box, like custom specced bicycles, tyres and stuff from a bulk packaging
- stuff sitting in a box can be became dry or have faded solely by aging, UV or whatever. It can also have been out the box for a while or box could be non authentic, but sought with the part.
- the system suggests 10 is more than 9, but I personally absolutely do not care about a box

The later could be solved by for example replacing 1-10 by a, b, c and so on, but than still ability to describe condition is limited and often inaccurate in cases.


Sure, I was just thinking off the cuff. Clearly the box thing is perhaps not useful. Also the whole ageing thing would need some thought, guess some stuff could be new but persihed (or whatever) with age.

I think my point was more that for me if we are to implement such a system it would have to quantifiable. Any subjective system is open to 'abuse' and perhaps would be no more useful than what we have now since it is one persons opinion.

Anyhow this is a useful discussion :)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:21 pm 
Concours Judge
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Okay, 16 voted so far + legrandefromage who didn't, but said 6. 17 opinions in total. More than the half said the Batavus is in good or very good condtion.

In case we assume good or very good: Imagining yourself the spectrum of all possible conditions a bike can have and accepting the 1-10 scale, where would you think this bike would fit? >>

'87 'dale

or this one? >>>

Dobbin's Casati


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