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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:38 pm 
98+ BoTM Winner
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kermitgreenkona88 wrote:
Yes those are great, modern amberwalls and that frame absolute Retromod heaven 8) 8) :D


Indeed :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:43 pm 
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Location: Gorleston-on-sea (If there is a bright center to the universe this is place furthest from it
BTW anyone reading this who may need a new kidney or other internal organ so I could buy one of these lovely frames please contact me on :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:43 pm 
retrobike rider
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dendy wrote:
letmetalktomark wrote:
Wonder why they didn't use the proteam tubing :? Would be interested to know the bare frame weight if you get a chance

I believe they are made by enigma and maybe the lack of proteam tubing is to do with keeping costs down due to manufacturing in the uk :?

The weight without seat clamp and including bolts is 2250g.. Not the lightest 853 frame out there but I didn't expect it to be. The back end is quite beefy and doesn't look to be as skinny as say a cotic soul, also the fillet brazing adds to the weight a touch.

Although it has been used for mtbs, 853 ProTeam is really for road bikes and it's a bit weedy for the kind of malarky you're liable to get up to. Even with regular 853, they could have designed the frame much lighter if they thought that was the way to go. Nothing to do with cost - a 9-6-9 tube costs the same as an 8-5-8. Most 853 mtb frames weigh c5lbs these days, as the designers go for strength and stiffness to make the best use of >100mm forks.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:32 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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Anthony wrote:
Most 853 mtb frames weigh c5lbs these days, as the designers go for strength and stiffness to make the best use of >100mm forks.


That and the need to pass much more stingent CEN tests I believe.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:54 pm 
98+ BoTM Winner
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Anthony wrote:
dendy wrote:
letmetalktomark wrote:
Wonder why they didn't use the proteam tubing :? Would be interested to know the bare frame weight if you get a chance

I believe they are made by enigma and maybe the lack of proteam tubing is to do with keeping costs down due to manufacturing in the uk :?

The weight without seat clamp and including bolts is 2250g.. Not the lightest 853 frame out there but I didn't expect it to be. The back end is quite beefy and doesn't look to be as skinny as say a cotic soul, also the fillet brazing adds to the weight a touch.

Although it has been used for mtbs, 853 ProTeam is really for road bikes and it's a bit weedy for the kind of malarky you're liable to get up to. Even with regular 853, they could have designed the frame much lighter if they thought that was the way to go. Nothing to do with cost - a 9-6-9 tube costs the same as an 8-5-8. Most 853 mtb frames weigh c5lbs these days, as the designers go for strength and stiffness to make the best use of >100mm forks.


Makes plenty of sense when it is explained like this. :)


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:57 am 
retrobike rider
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coomber wrote:
Anthony wrote:
Most 853 mtb frames weigh c5lbs these days, as the designers go for strength and stiffness to make the best use of >100mm forks.

That and the need to pass much more stingent CEN tests I believe.

That's true, and it does set a higher minimum than used to be the case. Even within the CEN limits though, Cotic claim a weight of 4.4lbs for the Soul and Merlin claim 4.25 for the Rock Lobster 853. My much earlier RL 853 was spot on the claimed weight, so I would guess those claims aren't that far out. I don't think it's costing Cotic and Merlin any more (or less) to make their frames lighter though, it's just that they're working to a different design philosophy.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:13 pm 
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider
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Just to update I weighed the RC104 with the slideouts today and it comes in at 5lbs 1oz or 2296g.
On the same scales my 19" 853 Kili comp ('97) weighed 4lbs 11oz (2126g).


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 9:04 pm 
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very lovely frame, looking forward seeing it getting build :)


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:54 pm 
98+ BoTM Winner
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firedfromthecircus wrote:
Just to update I weighed the RC104 with the slideouts today and it comes in at 5lbs 1oz or 2296g.
On the same scales my 19" 853 Kili comp ('97) weighed 4lbs 11oz (2126g).


There are similarities between the pace and the kili so nigh on identical weight is no surprise.

Changing subject a little - are you sure your kili comp is a 97? 19" 97 should weigh approx 1980g and the same frame for 98 was made with 80mm travel in mind so therefore a touch heavier. My 19" 98 853 kili weighs 2070g.

magas wrote:
very lovely frame, looking forward seeing it getting build :)


Cheers Martin :D


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:20 pm 
Gold Trader / MacRetro rider
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Joined: Sun Sep 04, 2011 11:33 am
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Location: Riding my Woodsie.
dendy wrote:
Changing subject a little - are you sure your kili comp is a 97? 19" 97 should weigh approx 1980g and the same frame for 98 was made with 80mm travel in mind so therefore a touch heavier. My 19" 98 853 kili weighs 2070g.



Ah, well, no. I'm not sure it is a '97.

It is a wishbone frame but without the fatter strengthening section your one has. Believed 853 and it's an orangey/red colour. Ritchey dropouts. :?:

Could be my scales though. :lol: Long time since they were calibrated. :oops: That would also make the Pace lighter if they are out though. That was the only reason I posted the weight of the Kili on the same scales as I knew you would have a term of reference.


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