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 Post subject: 98 Kona Hot
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:22 pm 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:37 pm
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Location: Guildford
Due to bending my 92 pine mountain i found myself needing a new frame with only 3 weeks to mayhem. While looking for a marin team issue i came across this. Ive not been retro biking long and while ive enjoyed the pine mountain, which i owned bitd i did start wanting an explosif. Finding a hot in my size was great and i cant wait to ride it :D.
This is going to be my main/only bike. Therefore its going to be a retro mod build. This also means disc brakes and right now the frame is sitting in chas roberts workshop waiting for the op. Im expecting some stick for this :wink: The frame should be ready next saturday. It will then go the the powder coaters who will have it ready for wednesday. This will leave me thursday to build it before mayhem. :shock:
I think paint is original. Im not sure what its made of though as there is no sticker or any sign of there being one? 853 i think. Also theres no chain stay bridge which i thinks a bit odd. It weighs 4lb 6oz on my fishing scales with the headset fitted. Frame no is kh78005. If anyone has any info id be greatfull.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:38 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Location: Fircombe.
You sure your scales are right? 4 1/2 lbs seems a bit lardy...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:46 pm 
retrobike rider
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Yeh i thought the same. There old fishing scales so not that accruate. Id think just over 4 would be right.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:05 pm 
retrobike rider / Gold Trader
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Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:09 am
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Location: Devon
Very nice.

Its your frame too do what you want at least it will be used.

Please say its not going to come back white though :lol:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:31 pm 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:22 pm
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Location: Hove
The weight you quote seems to be what we might expect for a size 18 - 1.985kg/4.375lbs incl headset cups and seat clamp should be equivalent to say 1.915kg/4.22lbs for the frame alone. A size 18 1998 Explosif with a basically similar Reynolds 853 tubeset weighs c2.015kg/4.45lbs, or roughly 100g more. It could be that the Hot has lighter gauge top and down tubes, especially as the bi-ovalising of the down tube provides greater strength and stiffness for any given weight of tube - giving the option of losing weight without losing strength.

The 1996 Hot (the first year of 853) was lighter than this. Steve Jones says his size 17 frame weighed 1795g/3.96lbs, equivalent to 4.05lbs for a size 18, but that had a 28.6 top tube and 31.8 down tube (both round) and was built for lightness. By 1998, the penny had dropped that with suspension forks becoming stiffer and having more travel, steel frames needed to be made stiffer than before if they were to compete with aluminium. That's why Kona deliberately built their high-end 98 frames heavier than the 97s. It would be a mistake to think that indicated any lessening in quality - the quality was the same or higher, but the design imperative was turned more towards strength. I expect your frame makes a faster bike than the lighter one from two years earlier, although it obviously depends on riding style and personal taste as well.

The first of these two photos presumably shows your frame a few years ago, as it's hard to imagine that there are two black 98 Hots in the UK (the colour was a free option). It once belonged to Adam Gent, who seems to have owned more high-end Konas than any other UK collector. The other is a 98 Hot pictured here in Mr Zero's kitchen in Las Vegas, but this one is now in Portslade, Hove and owned by Konaman1 (aka Matt). Note that the green frame has a chainstay bridge. I can't explain the absence of a bridge on your frame, but the man who built the 98 Hots did say on this forum that the tubeset he was given included 853 stays, which had only just become available (the Explosif had 735 stays). I suppose it is possible that it was decided during the production run that the fabled air-hardening properties of 853 obviated the need for a bridge, or maybe the 853 chainstay was fundamentally stronger.

Whatever the merits or otherwise of adding a disc tab, at least you have taken it to one of the few people anywhere with experience of working with 853 stays, as he presumably did the development work on them. [Incidentally, I believe they weren't used for long as you need to be very highly skilled to build a straight frame with such hard tubes - it is apparently almost impossible to cold work them if there is any misalignment after they cool from the welding.]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:42 pm 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:37 pm
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Location: Guildford
Quote:
Please say its not going to come back white though

No not white, although i do like them in white i think theres enough already :wink: Im thinking bright orange but as the time gets closer im not sure. Open to sugestions.

Thanks Anthony, thats some great info.
I didnt know that they are that rare in the uk. Sounds like ive got quite a special frame.
Im pleased to hear its all 853. I think Chas thought it was columbus due to the tube profile. Im no expert and thought better of getting into a debate about it with mr roberts :lol:
At first i though the chainstay bridge my have been chopped out at some point dispite the original looking paint. Pleased to hear thats not the case.
Ive never held a top quality steel frame before so was surprised by how thin it feels. I just hope your right about the strengh as i get the impresion that it wouldnt take much to dent it, the down tube gives the impression of eggshell when tapped. :shock: It also makes a lovely sound and rings like a tuning fork. Im not sure what this means but i like it :) The welds are also very nice.
Im feeling a bit of presure now to make this a special build. However the first build will have to be quick for mayhem . After that i think a lack of funds and time, and regular high mileage may keep it from looking its best. It was made for riding though.
Weight wise im guessing that its about a lb lighter than my pine mountain frame so it should be around 24.5lbs when first built which ill be happy with.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:06 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Fri May 01, 2009 7:11 pm
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Location: Fircombe.
Which Powdercoaters are you using? Local to Guildford?
Croydon's fun, isn't it? Bleedin trams :shock:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:36 pm 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 11:22 pm
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Location: Hove
Smokes wrote:
No not white, although i do like them in white i think theres enough already :wink: Im thinking bright orange but as the time gets closer im not sure. Open to sugestions.

There is such a thing as white heat. But perhaps white isn't really a hot colour. Orange would be a hot colour, but whatever you do, I do think you should stick with authentic 1998 decals.

Smokes wrote:
I didnt know that they are that rare in the uk. Sounds like ive got quite a special frame.

The man who made them said he had a contract for 50 Hots and 50 Kus, and only a few of those would have made it to the UK at £800 for single colour.

Smokes wrote:
Im pleased to hear its all 853. I think Chas thought it was columbus due to the tube profile. Im no expert and thought better of getting into a debate about it with mr roberts :lol:

As he did development for Reynolds and also used Columbus Max for many years, I doubt whether anybody is better placed than him to say. I have been told that Reynolds made an ovalised 853 tube. If it originally had the sticker '853 butted main tubes', then under US consumer law that had to be true. Furthermore the Kona website says 'Reynolds 853 Opposite Oval Tubing'. For comparison, a Columbus Max down tube goes from 40 by 31mm to 31 by 40.

Smokes wrote:
At first i though the chainstay bridge my have been chopped out at some point dispite the original looking paint. Pleased to hear thats not the case.

I was just speculating there, but if the paint looks original I doubt whether you need be concerned.

Smokes wrote:
Ive never held a top quality steel frame before so was surprised by how thin it feels. I just hope your right about the strengh as i get the impresion that it wouldnt take much to dent it, the down tube gives the impression of eggshell when tapped. :shock: It also makes a lovely sound and rings like a tuning fork. Im not sure what this means but i like it :) The welds are also very nice.
The Columbus Max down tube is an 8-5-8, so thin but not all that thin. If it's an ovalised 853 tube, it's conceivably an 853 ProTeam tube, i.e., a road gauge in a big size to achieve the required strength, so it could be quite thin. I'm sure they knew what they were doing.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:48 pm 
retrobike rider
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Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:37 pm
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Location: Guildford
Got my frame back today :D I was expecting it saturday. Its now going to the powder coaters first thing. :)

Quote:
Which Powdercoaters are you using? Local to Guildford?
Croydon's fun, isn't it? Bleedin trams

JR Finishing located in Horsham. Found them recomended on here so hopfully good. Yeh not a fan of croyden and seeing trams flying around is just weird.


Quote:
There is such a thing as white heat. But perhaps white isn't really a hot colour. Orange would be a hot colour, but whatever you do, I do think you should stick with authentic 1998 decals.

Still thinking orange but will see what colors they have in the morning. I like bright red but ive had a stumpy in that flavour. Ill stick with 98 decals. I got a set with the frame but there not the best. Think they may be ebay as although they say hot theres no hand made in the usa.
Anyway its looking better for mayhem as i may have a finnished frame by Tuesday :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:00 am 
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Location: London
Liking this, I would second the Orange option too - with lots of CK Mango parts pending you winning the Lottery!! :)


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