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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:30 pm 
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I've been doing a few experiments today... I've measured parameters of some wires commonly used as speaker cable.

Capacitance of anything reasonably expected to be used as speaker cable is too low (on sensible lengths) to be a factor given the source impedances commonly found on solid state amplifiers, but on valve amps may be another story...

Inductance however... I measured some (in the context) fairly high inductances from very thin cables (which is the current vogue), and as we know, series inductance acts as a low pass filter. Thus, the 'high cut' you will see from series inductance might tame the HF of harsh or toppy sounding systems, leading one to believe the cables are responsible for 'improving' the top end. Get your source and amplification right and it's not an issue, but thats another story.

Ergo... speaker cables most probably *can* sound different, but the current fashion for super thin cables is a step in the wrong direction as high inductance will colour the sound, and a high impedance cable will also f*ck with other aspects such as damping, and therefore LF accuracy.

So as in many other areas of life, my oversimplified lunchtime tests reveal thick is best. :wink:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:42 am 
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Thick and short.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:03 am 
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is that the same with multi strand and solid core ?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:39 am 
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Only had multistrand to hand, but regarding straight wire inductance, as long as the csa is similar it wont make a huge difference.

If you want to get out at the speaker end what you put in at the amp end, thicker is best. If you want it to sound 'different', very very thin is best.

If you want to take lots of money, build in some oak boxes along the length with 'articulation poles' in them ;)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:45 am 
King of the Skip Monkeys
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All this faffing around with cabling implies that you think you are better than the engineers that mastered the music...

Yes, you, you there with the silly interconnects and smug look.

Image

If memory serves, this type of cable had high inductance, although it could be capacitance, or cheese - it was something to do with it being flat anyway.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:58 am 
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The reality is that, recording studio's are not all the same , at all.........some stuff is poorly recorded and mixed. Most peoples collections will have recordings in them inc CD that are overbright, thin sounding, full sounding, too much bass etc etc etc...............if you JUST buy music because it was recorded well, you've lost the plot.

I'm not smug.....i'm happy, happy that i've recently found a super super cable which was cheap 2nd hand and RRP was good too and just completed the picture of sound for me. Be happy for me

:D


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:14 am 
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The whole point of high fidelity playback is to reproduce exactly what is on the source material. Nothing added, nothing taken away. Therefore, from a cable, you want a length of wire which does nothing, so you want a length of wire with zero reactance and zero DC resistance. As that isn't possible, you want as close as possible to that.

A cable with higher than normal capacitance or inductance, or higher than normal DC resistance (ie a thin one) deviates from this ideal, and therefore *does* 'make a difference' to the sound. However, this 'difference' is a move away from the source material, which may make it sound nicer depending on the qualities of the original source, and whether the rest of your system is designed by an electronics engineer or cobbled together by an ex-hifi dealer selling snake oil amplifiers which aren't stable and blow up every five minutes because he has some weird ideas about the colour of screws or green paint or something...

I guess what I'm saying, I'll stick with short as practical thick speaker cables (like the old QED 79 strand), and interconnects made from whatever RF cable I have handy because I know they're contributing negligible to nothing to the path from source to speaker.

So with Kofi Annan hat on, you're BOTH right. :lol: Cables *can* make your hifi sound 'different'. What they cannot do is make it sound 'more accurate' unless there are deficiencies elsewhere being masked by a lossy cable. This doesn't stop a lossy cable making a system with deficiencies elsewhere sound 'nicer' though, but not 'more accurate'.

You should spend your money where it counts though. All components mortals can afford are designed with compromises. Get inside and fix those. That's where the real improvements are. I was listening to an old Prefab Sprout CD last night on my Marantzenstein CD player, and not to put to fine a point on it, it sounded unbelievably, jaw droppingly good! Far better than a £40 eBay CD player ought to sound.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:34 am 
King of the Skip Monkeys
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That has been my point for some time.

Plus, seeking out good recordings has always been part of the scene.

And as CD players are reaching 30, there are plenty of secondhand players about that already sound great without the need for modding if thats not your thing - I'm a speaker guy anyway - theres far more fun to be had there.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:37 am 
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indeed a cable that adds nothing is kinda what people are looking for.......but all cd players, amps , speakers add or subract from the original recording.........ie give their own version of the original sound............so i see inteconnects thin/thick as a final tweek to compensate for less flatering reproduction that, the cd player sends to the amp then the amp sends to the speakers, then the speakers send into the room acoustics.

All the above componecnt may add/subtract from the original recording giving their own rendition...........cables/ speaker or interconnect are a small part of that whole ' trying to sound like the original' thing, and assome cd players , amps and speakers may add /subtract to warmth or high notes so to a degree certain cables perhaps as you say due to thier thickness or thinness.......(i also believe in other properties) may just be another taming or hightening of a part of the sound that may just make all the difference.

After all why upgrade your cd player if all it does is sound alter the sound a little bit from your previous one, and speakers cos their less shrill, or amp cos it's warmer...........all these thing add up to the listening experience.

Again i have to make my self clear i believe 80-90% of cables are clones and a rip off, so i agree mostly....................but just like you get mark 1 or SE vesions of the same product that give a tiny bit more performance i believe an interconnect can do this too. But not many :D


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:52 am 
King of the Skip Monkeys
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round and round in circles...

Speakers are mechanical devices

CD players are mechanical devices

Amplifiers are to a certain extent, are mechanical devices

Interconnects are or should be inert, as said many many times, they should contribute nothing to the above, if they do, they interfere with the intended operation of the above.


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