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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:52 am 
King of the Skip Monkeys
King of the Skip Monkeys
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Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:34 pm
Posts: 26172
Location: Moomin Valley
Back in the dim and distant - most CD players were set to 1.5v output whereas Rotel set theirs to 3.0v. They seemed to. 'Win' many awards from What Hifi....


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:26 am 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:36 pm
Posts: 4007
Location: uk
They also have many fans by people who own them. A lot seem to rate as standard and also mod the 2 players i have, one was from you Big Cheese, still sounding good ta. I think What hi fi just take turns on makers......Nad have been the best CD player, also Marantz, Cambridge, and so on at the 300 squid level for years, i trust personal reviews by owners and my ears. What i found strange was the old 855 sounded better than my more modern Arcam !........i use it with my headphone amp set up, it sounds more open and airy than the 965bx which sounds better as the main hi fi speaker set up.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:05 am 
Old School Grand Master

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:55 pm
Posts: 8209
Location: New Forest, UK
Being cynical, the test winners seem to be the ones with most advertising... :shock:


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:21 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:36 pm
Posts: 4007
Location: uk
i remember being taken in by a certain amp that was meant to be the KI version with extra copper blah blah, the thing arrived with the start button stuck in and the transformer nut and washer rattling loose........i fixed this but it sounded so crap and no better than a cheap amp from sony that was £200 less.......


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:43 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:30 am
Posts: 958
Location: Malvern
There are a range of Marantz CD players with the famous 'HDAM' circuit fitted. This circuit is basically a discrete component op-amp, added after what would be the output op-amp. I've looked at it many many times and cannot for the life of me see a reason for it to be there - other than for marketing purposes, as so many hifi folk have a weird trust of discrete components and a hatred for anything called an op-amp - even though an op-amp made from discrete components cannot possibly perform better due to wide tolerances, build inconsistency etc.

For small signal stuff, I haven't touched a transistor in donkeys years! You can get much more performance, much more easily with an op-amp.

The standard for CD players was 2v, and it's a good plan, 3v is even better if you can maintain headroom. Keep your internal signals high and your SNr remains low.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:53 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:36 pm
Posts: 4007
Location: uk
Ever thought of making a tone control unit like the musicl fidelity x-tone ? i used to have one and they work well without affecting the sound....they sell for more than they sold for now ! i'd buy one of you if you could make a simple quality one ???....


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:08 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:36 pm
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Location: uk
i wouldn't need .........all those settings really just a quality bass and treble unit for some of my rougher recordings.........i deffo think there's a niche market for these, knowing how sought afterthe x-tone in in some circles.........i want something to use with my headphone amp......but not anothe x-thone for silly cash........an old graphic EQ would prob affect the sound quality with dirty sliders and too many frequencies to alter.......
http://www.musicalfidelity.com/uploads/ ... /xtone.pdf

I like this quote:

"One of the greatest mysteries and acts of insanity in the audio
business was the deletion of tone controls from hifi amplifiers from
about the 1980s with some utterly discreditable mumbo jumbo that 'tone
controls are no part of a hifi system'. I can categorically assure you
that a properly designed and executed tone control circuit does not
degrade the signal quality and never has done; this is extremely easy
to prove under blind listening conditions*. Tone controls were deleted
from hifi amps as a marketing gimmick to attract a new 'minimalist'
consumer away from amps laden with buttons and controls."


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:26 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:30 am
Posts: 958
Location: Malvern
The problem with many graphic EQs is the frequencies are too close and interact.

The Quad tilt control is a very clever device (the 'Ambler' tone control to give it it's proper title), and it's possible to build a pretty transparent bass / treble control with variable turnover frequencies which is probably more effective than fixed low and high frequencies.

You should never be scared of tone controls. Well designed ones should be undetectable when set to flat. Bloody 'audiophiles' have slain so much good kit because they don't have a clue. Don't get me wrong, short signal paths are good if you only need a volume control (even only from a manufacturing cost point of view) but some tonal control is great and as I said, doesn't need to impact anything. Take the average studio mixing desk. Why 'audiophiles' haven't all gone apoplectic at the thought of all those op-amps, equalisers, pan-pots etc I'll never know, but the music they listen to has been through them - several times!

As far as building one - OK. I have a load of veroboard on order


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:48 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:36 pm
Posts: 4007
Location: uk
That would be cool if you could.......and i bet you anything if you popped one or two on ebay, they would go like hot cakes :D ( i had an old Quad system in the early 90's think i had a 34 pre amp which would have had the tilt control on.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 12:22 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:30 am
Posts: 958
Location: Malvern
My board has arrived. Any thoughts on what turnover frequencies you'd like? Or should I just use my own discretion?

[b]Should we move this thread next-door to the 'other projects and collections' section so it's not cluttering up the 'sales' bit?[/b]


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