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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 10:38 pm 
Dirt Disciple
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Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:16 pm
Posts: 54
Gutted :cry:
Dented the right hand seat stay just behind the seat tube on my Dialled MX20.
Appreciate it it's not strictly old school.
But anyone got any experience of dents like this?
And what they mean for the future of the bike?
I ride the bike pretty hard - use it for everything - hacking around on, racing, training etc.....
It's the racing that bothers me - or more specifically casing a jump and something snapping bothers me.
Google reveals a range of dented bike philosophies - from 'it's a steel bike, it's supposed to be dented' to 'buy a new frame immediately'.
The pictures are not the best (white doesn't show dents very well), but any advice greatly appreciated.


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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 10:43 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:43 pm
Posts: 783
Location: Cambridgeshire - flatlands (the horror, the horror)
No, I don’t think so. Not one of that scale.
And this is based on four decades of experience.
But before going any further with discussion - how did you do it?
That may change the advice....


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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 10:59 pm 
Dirt Disciple
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Posts: 54
Did it removing the bottom bracket.
BB wasn't moving so i had one of those bizarre configuarations/contraptions that people come up with..... :?
Swung the hammer just as the spanner dropped off the configuration/contraption.
Missed the (now) absent spanner and hit the frame :facepalm:
The hammer is a plastic ended one (thankfully).
I'm f'ing furious with myself.


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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 11:27 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 6:39 pm
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Location: South Devon
I wouldn’t sweat it.


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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 11:53 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2020 6:24 pm
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Dents near welds is never good but I wouldn't imagine that the dent there would cause much of a problem. If the dent had cracked the paint then I'd say there would have been cause for concern. Just keep riding and inspect regularly.


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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 8:37 am 
Dirt Disciple
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Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:16 pm
Posts: 54
Many thanks for the replies.
It did crack the paint - it's the larger black shape within the red ovals of both pictures.
I'm torn - i had a complete strip and refurb in mind (felt the bike had earned that much at least).....
But every race season someone ends up in hospital becasue something on thier bike failed (not necessarily the frame).
Racing seems to expose any little weakness in the bike.
Maybe if i strip, fill and paint it i might forget it's there.....
Eventually :(


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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 8:50 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:43 pm
Posts: 783
Location: Cambridgeshire - flatlands (the horror, the horror)
Thanks for info on how it happened - don’t kick yourself, as humans we do such complex things that random errors combined with ‘events’ often happen.

Two things.

Bikes, in my view, should wear their history with pride. Steve McQueen’s Bullit Mustang would not be right restored. It wears its history.

Secondly, filling and painting would stop you from seeing any crack propagation from the dent, or any change around it.

So.....best to either do a complete job - which would be a fillet braze and file, or run some white paint into the crack, finish with fine grain paper, and leave.

Is it a serious dent? Well, it’s close to some joints, but then its highly supported - would be worse in the middle of a highly stressed tube. The tube isn’t creased. You hit it with a soft hammer not a hard edged one, so the metal is likely not pinched. I have a couple of frames which have things which are FAR worse. And I mean far worse.

Keep an eye on it but I think it’s a stable thing.

Worst one for me? Built a lime green Klein Pinnacle over two month period in the 90s. Went for third ride. Third ride! BANG...huge flint up from front wheel on a South Downs descent. Big dent in downtube. Creased...which is worst of all. Not a good day.

Oh ... and of course yours is steel. Much much better to hit and dent steel than coke-can-thin aluminium tubes (Cannondale you have been called out.....).


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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 9:55 am 
Dirt Disciple
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Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2019 4:16 pm
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Thanks 2manyoranges - really appreciate the input.

I generally apply the same principles as you when it comes to a bike showing its history.

I get them to where i want them and then i let them grow old (older) gracefully.

No 'dying the grey hairs'.....so to speak.

I'm repeating myself, but racing concerns me though.

I don't think i would have the confidence to go flat out with the bike as it is.

I like your idea of a repair job - i think that would salve my conscience - in as much i could say to myself that i did everything i could to make the bike sound.

There is an old school motorbike guy who does this sort of thing near me - he's done various bits and pieces for me so i'm sure he could handle it.
Just so i'm clear - are we talking about a patch welded/brazed on and then sanded flush with the existing tube?

That Klein sounds like a heartbraker.
I've always wanted a Rascal, but they are SO expensive.
But to be honest, i think they're worth it.
Gary Klein was a genius in my mind (i think he might have been an actual genius (IQ)), but anyway.....
I wouldn't say i'm losing sleep over my situation, but i keep replaying it in my mind.
I bring the hammer up, spanner drops off, i hear the spanner hit the floor.....
The bizarre thing is - in my mind i SEE the dent BEFORE i hit the frame.
Then i hit the frame - already knowing what i've done.

Well, like i said, really appreciate your help.


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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 10:24 am 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 6:39 pm
Posts: 1535
Location: South Devon
I personally don’t think the bike is likely to be structurally compromised. Might be worth checking the alignment but I doubt that will have knocked it out.

Many of my bikes have similar damage, or worse.

Repairing it properly (and repainting) it is likely to cost more than the value of the frame. Repairing it badly might make it worse. I wouldn’t entrust the repair to a “motorbike guy” - different thing imo.

If it were mine I would just ride it, maybe put some paint on the exposed metal to prevent corrosion. But then I’m confident that my riding skills, weight and strength are such that I’m unlikely to ever test the limits of a steel frame.

If you are uncomfortable with the damage then you probably should seek the advice of an expert (i.e. a professional frame builder). Don’t entrust your safety to some random guy on an internet forum. ;)

Alternatively you could just sell the frame as-is and replace it.

As I say though, I personally would ride it and put the damage down to experience.


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PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2020 10:51 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:43 pm
Posts: 783
Location: Cambridgeshire - flatlands (the horror, the horror)
Woah....definitely a professional framebuilder to evaluate and fix.

What weight and height are you? And what size the frame?
And when you say racing what kinds of things are you doing?

I know that when racing you must avoid equipment that you have to keep an eye on - you just need to go full tilt, in a fugged exhausted state, and rely on everything absolutely.

I think this one is just one to watch every now and again. I don’t think it will fail suddenly without any warning signs. Check the joint on the opposite side of the bridge to see if the paint has cracked there. If not, I think things are sound. If it has, then it will need attention.

Certainly put paint in the crack on the dent, to stop corrosion.

And that mental thing of seeing it all happening and out of sequence. It’s a common phenomenon - seeing it just before it happens. There’s no name for it as far as I know - psychologists please dive in - happened last week to us, the Grom was hauling on a mattock to remove a tree stump from a trail and the handle was beeeeending and just as the word ‘sttttop!” Formed in my brain, the handle snapped.

prio-perception describes instant responsiveness of the nervous system, but the temporal mix up you describe ‘...did I have time to DO something?...’ needs a name. Rhema - Greek for action; Tempus - Latin for time; Mesce - Latin for mix.

Retempmesce.


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