Got the road bike out last weekend. Its got 20 spoke (I think) ksyrium elites on it. Suddenly the bad memories of them came back - deep section rims provide lots of vertical stiffness, but too few spokes provide no lateral stiffness. Then the back one's always going out of true. Plus if I sprint, I can get the tyre to rub the chainstay. And they've probably not done 1000 miles. oh and cross winds are a bugger, with the bladed spokes. So, i toyed with the idea of going back to trad spoked wheels, but the ksyriums did cost a lot and weight on wheels is the most important aspect. so I weighed them. Ksyrium elites v XT hubs on 32 spoke 3X mavic open pros. Guess what? The 32 spokers weigh 75 grammes each more, so thats 150g in total and thats with a rim tape, which the ksyriums dont use. So job done, I'm back to traditional wheels with the sexy ones relegated to time trial use, should I ever bother. Talk about marketing clap trap.