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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:53 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:31 am
Posts: 585
Location: London
Old Ned wrote:
Dave Marsh (who is one of the top experts on Raleigh SB frames having worked there) told me that 753 was 26.8 and 531 was 27.2.

You could ring him at his shop and ask his opinion.


I think it's only early (metric) 753 that was 26.8.

I've got a mid-80s 753 frame and it takes a 27.2 seatpin. Tony Oliver in his book said 753, if built "properly" should be 27.4.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:19 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:19 am
Posts: 2096
Location: Sheffield, top city
my M&B (vernon barker these days) circa 1985 was definitely 27.2


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 10:19 am 
King of the Skip Monkeys
King of the Skip Monkeys
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Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:34 pm
Posts: 26174
Location: Moomin Valley
I've dealt with many 531 frames in their various guises and only one other 753 frame - the tubing on this frame is very thin,almost coke can thin, i've never come across 531 this guage before.

unfortunately, I'm out of the dismantling game for about 4 weeks :roll: 'till certain bits of me are working again.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:15 pm 
Old School Grand Master

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:55 pm
Posts: 8219
Location: New Forest, UK
one-eyed_jim wrote:
hamster wrote:
Tony Oliver in his book on framebuilding says that shot-in stays like that are really only suitable on TT frames...because they weren't exactly robust.

Seemed to work OK for Ritchey. I know plenty of Ritcheys break, but I haven't seen many broken there.


Weren't the Ritcheys welded not brazed? I think the problem was too little area for the brazing fillet.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:36 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:21 pm
Posts: 5785
Location: Lost in Translation
hamster wrote:
Weren't the Ritcheys welded not brazed? I think the problem was too little area for the brazing fillet.

Ritchey used several different joining tecniques, often mixed on a single frame - lugs and fillet brazing for the early frames, TIG, fillets, and braze-over-TIG for the later ones. His classic seat cluster style is pretty close to that Raleigh's, with the seat bolt and stays brazed to a sleeve "lug":

http://www.oldmountainbikes.com/catalog ... 997_05.jpg

He does tend to put a bit more of a fillet in the joint than you see on the Raleigh though.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:12 pm 
Old School Grand Master

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:55 pm
Posts: 8219
Location: New Forest, UK
...for obvious reasons... :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:03 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:21 pm
Posts: 5785
Location: Lost in Translation
hamster wrote:
...for obvious reasons... :wink:

Because a durable joint requires correct execution? :wink:

I like Tony Oliver's book, but there are enough of these seat clusters out there proving their durability that his comments in this case seem a little off base. They might be valid for a tandem, or a bike with a touring load on the rear rack - Tony's area of expertise. I'm not sure he built too many road racing frames.

Here's Jobst Brandt's Peter Johnson after tens of thousands of miles of California dirt roads and alpine touring:

http://www.bikecult.com/works/archive/0 ... nJB04.html

and another PJ in the nude, showing the fillet:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_CZSaDPBlu48/S ... h/pj01.jpg

It probably works better in brass than in silver.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:38 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:42 pm
Posts: 783
Location: Brighton
Quote:
heres the one i meant - the last blue and white one at the bottom. note the seat cluster.


You're assuming it's a Team Professional. That wasn't the only frame to come out of SBDU.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 9:46 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:39 am
Posts: 98
dont forget 531c was a lot thinner and it was much more up to having braze-ons fitted i would still stick with 531


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:22 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:19 am
Posts: 2096
Location: Sheffield, top city
terryhfs wrote:
Quote:
heres the one i meant - the last blue and white one at the bottom. note the seat cluster.


You're assuming it's a Team Professional. That wasn't the only frame to come out of SBDU.


I know. they did custom builds too. I meant it more in terms of dating it. At around that time they were the in thing in raleigh dealers. plus SystemU also rode raleighs - mainly white with red/yellow graphics, but I cant quite remember what their seat cluster designs were.


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