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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:09 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:39 pm
Posts: 33
My parents still do, I'm a couple of miles away. Dunno who owned the cycle business after Ian - I'd moved away by then. I know John Hook and his father ran the shop in Burton Stone Lane. Their business moved to the industrial estate in Wigginton but I understand that John now specialises in eroica online, it'd surprise me if he's not a member on here.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:22 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:19 am
Posts: 10
Given the only marking I can find on the frame is 'Simplex' on the RH dropout maybe it is a 'special'. If it was a run of the mill frame wouldn't have a frame number?


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:37 pm 
Retro Guru
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Did you acquire this in France? You could check the BB etc. for French threads, and check the seatpin diameter to assess the quality of the tubing. Looks like it could be 531 or Vitus, but it doesn't look like anyone refined the lugs or anything, so it's not unlikely to be an early 70s production frame from one of the larger producers- probably close to (but not at) the top of the range- that's been modified a bit later. Fwiw the Peugeot pro team bikes were painted silver from about 1975 (they were white before that), so whoever put the paint and decals on was probably copying that. Having said that, the silver obviously went on after the anachronistic internal brake cabling, so all bets are off. And having said that, it wouldn't surprise me if the French constructeurs were messing around with internal cabling back in 1948 or something, so again all bets are off.

Yes, could be cyclocross.. but the dedicated ones I think usually have a higher BB than road frames.

Dunno...

I like it.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:43 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:19 am
Posts: 10
I bought the bike in an eBay auction, the chap was in Wales. I'm sorry but I wouldn't know what to look for in terms French threads, I guess it'll be metric but I don't have anything to compare it against. By seat pin diameter do you mean the seat post, this measured 1" diameter.
I really don't have the depth of knowledge with bicycles to help me tie down things like country of origin, or even the frame material. To me it's just a nice bike that, if even remotely interesting, would justify a decent paint job and the correct decals.
I spent some time again tonight looking at old French road bikes and found very few with cantilever brakes and what I did find didn't resemble mine.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:37 am 
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Posts: 1155
After a hunch search, I believe what you have there could well be a Bertin C34 cyclocross.
https://bertinclassiccycles.files.wordp ... ocross.jpg
https://bertinclassiccycles.files.wordp ... llwood.jpg
A good score.
Regarding threads/dimensions, you'd better have a look at this:
https://sheldonbrown.com/velos.html


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:50 pm 
rider | rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:42 pm
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Location: West Yorkshire
torqueless wrote:
it wouldn't surprise me if the French constructeurs were messing around with internal cabling back in 1948 or something, so again all bets are off.


I was surprised to see in 'A Boy, A Girl and a Bicycle' film that was on Talking Pictures channel recently, dated I think 1948 (with Honor Blackman and Diana Dors - if you don't know who they are, ask your Dad!), that a bike that was stolen and was a Paris frame, had internal top tube rear brake cabling and that was how it was recognised after a respray. I've watched this film a few times and this has never really come to my attention. I was probably looking out for Diana Dors and the cameo appearance (ie a fleeting glimpse) of Jimmy Saville in the road race bunch. Didn't some of the French 'boutique' manufacturers use internal cabling quite early?


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:01 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:19 am
Posts: 10
A mate of mine, JK, used to work as a machinist in Swindon and recalled a tale about an old boy he used to work with. By the way, Diana Dors real name was Diana Fluck.
This old boy told my mate that Diana Dors was a Swindon girl and she had a really mucky name but try as he might he couldn't remember it. He pondered it for a while then shouted GOT IT! Her real name was Diana Clunt.....

JK maintained this was a true story but you could never be sure :D


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:05 am 
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Oh well... we may have failed to identify this bike as a
BERTIN C34 CYCLOCROSS, but at least we had a good old chinwag about York bike shops and riders and post-war film stars in the meantime...

.. that's just the way it goes, sometimes, eh? :)


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:14 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:19 am
Posts: 10
I looked closely at the Bertin that's the closest I've seen. It may well remain a mystery but I'm still hoping to find a frame number buried beneath the paint, maybe even some old decals!

I think that's whats bugging me most at the moment, the absence of any frame number or other identification.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:58 am 
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"Frame Size and Serial Numbers
Typical Bertin practice was to stamp the center-to-top frame size, measured in centimetres, into the off side rear dropout face. Often, but not always, the frame serial number would be there or on the drive side rear dropout. However, for a period of time in the late 60s and 70s, no serial numbers were used"
From:https://bertinclassiccycles.wordpress.c ... ard-carre/
The Simplex dropouts suggest a French frame. The Vagner crown and Prugnat 62s lugs are both mentioned as typical in the above piece. The detail where the stays join the dropouts also. And of course the internal rear brake cable, which is in evidence on the black frame linked to above.
I'm not qualified to judge whether your frame was built by Bernard Carre.


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