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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:40 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:04 pm
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Location: wakefield
I have tried to take a closer look of the Raleigh 40th complete bike . If the bike was designed to take the Campagnolo centaur brake callipers from the outset then the rear brake pads seem to be at the lowest possible point in the slots. This means to make the rear brake bridge higher ie 50mm instead of 45 mm the brake blocks would miss the rims !. Regarding frame geometry if for a given frame size you higher the bottom bracket height then this will increase the head tube length just as lowering it will decrease it.
Looking at the close up shot of the rear drop outs , the plain drop outs seems to be Tig welded I think I can see the weld ripples very nasty in my opinion and a total clash with the original aesthetics of these frames . The drop outs remind me of the mass produced replicas that Raleigh produced for the schoolboy/teenage market with the stamped drop outs and gas pipe tubing that the only thing in common with the team bikes is that it was made by Raleigh and had the team colour scheme.
Anyone looking at the new Taiwan replica on the Raleigh website who knew what the real thing looked like must have had an inkling that it would be a big throw of the dice to get something in the same league as the original. If someone wanted to have a replica made I am sure they could get something closer to the 1980 frame made for less than £1500 .


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:34 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:25 pm
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Location: It's not easy being a dolphin.
Not really my cup of tea this, but still find it all interesting.

I'm thinking some of you are a bit harsh.

- The original was a high end race day bike, with probably a high to unlimited budget. Perfection. Photographed and advertised
via races all over the world it just had to be tip-top.

- The replica is targeted for fan-boys, Sunday outings and is nothing more than a café talk piece. Race grade assembly and
aesthetic perfection was never ever going to be on the cards. Building a bike to a tight budget always was. Looking
like the original at first glance is.....well.....good enough since it was never intended to be raced.

Personally I wouldn't be surprised if this was just a small scale initiative from a hand full of Raleigh workers with a benevolent rubber stamp from the management. On the plus side, it's a definite step up from the Europa.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:04 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:49 am
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Location: Hampshire
torqueless wrote:
I don't want to move the brake bridge in the picture, because I'm trusting your assertion- as yet pictorially unverified on this thread- that the front shoes are likewise at the bottom of their slots on the pictured bike.
This is the point. If I were buying this frame I wouldn't much care whether the brake drop was 45mm or 50mm, but I would like and expect it to be the same front and rear, within a reasonable tolerance, which is significantly less than 5mm.

As have mentioned earlier, the brake pads are at the bottom of the slots both front and rear and is clearly visible in photos and videos of this fine looking machine. This allows for maximum tyre clearance.


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Last edited by vcballbat on Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:44 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:49 am
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Location: Hampshire
vcballbat wrote:
The variation between front and rear brake drop can be quite simply be put down to fork rake which alters the angle of the brake caliper in relation to the rim...I hope this helps.

Sorry I should have posted a picture to help resolve this conundrum. :D


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:04 pm 
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The way I see it, 40mm of fork rake brings the sector of the rim on which the pads operate closer to the brake pivot than would be the case with a straight fork. This would necessitate a front drop measurement if anything a few mm less than at the rear, but I'm measuring the rake at a right angle to the axis of the head tube/steerer, whereas if you measure it horizontally, it's probably the other way around.. :? :?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:54 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:49 am
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Location: Hampshire
Another reason why Raleigh made the decision to lower the standover height by lowering the seat tube from Joop's original size 57.5cm CTT down to 56cm CTT is because this frame is made from Reynolds 753 tubing, this has been specially remanufactured for this project. With a limited production of just 250 frames, building the frame with a flat top tube would mean Raleigh would have to offer more than just five size options. This would make the project far more complicated and expensive for such a limited production run. A slightly sloping top tube offers more flexible sizing options with more seat post adjustment.
The size 56 frame sits perfectly in the middle of Raleigh's five size options :-
50 53 56 59 61
The head tube length of 143mm is close to Joop's original which is approximately 144mm.

Oh.. and aero seat post's look crap if they ain't stuck out enough. :lol:


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Last edited by vcballbat on Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:46 am 
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Actually at the link you provided earlier you can navigate back to a "Raleigh Bike Size Guide" which seems to be identical to the specific Anniversary model size guide in every respect. Draw your own conclusions..


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2020 5:31 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:49 am
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Location: Hampshire
The Bianchi Eroica is very similar to the Raleigh with similar spec, even sharing the same renforced fork crown. It is not a limited edition of 250 though, it has a level top tube and is offered in seven size options :-
50-53-55-57-59-61-63
By comparison the 2012 Raleigh 125th anniversary model limited edition of just 125 was offered in just three size options :-
51-53-57
It cost £2000 as a complete machine and sold out quickly.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:56 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:49 am
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Location: Hampshire
originalshinkicker wrote:
vcballbat wrote:
By allowing clearance for fatter tyres shows Raleigh has put a great deal of thought into the design of the machine. Making it more adaptable for modern real life use and road conditions all seems pretty logical to me. This is something Ritchy didn't consider on their bike which we can see when 28mm tyres are fitted. :facepalm:


Are you actually reading what I wrote? Raleigh haven't allowed for fatter tyres. The rear clearance on this frame is the same as SBDU which is 45mm - that is Piccolo brakes and period racing tubs.

The new frame has 45mm on the rear and 50mm on the front - if you think the 50mm is an intentional design for fatter tyres then why just do that on the front? Wouldn't you do that on both? Or do modern cyclists only ride fatter on the front?

Can you decipher this response from Raleigh?.. they talk about restricted wheel positioning and adjustability... but adjustment for what, can you please help explain this mystery ?

Raleigh UK Response
On your question from the brake drops, these had to be amended to suit as the brake shoes would have been very extreme with the rear, especially on the rear which would have dramatically restricted the wheel positioning and adjustability.
MD Raleigh UK

Taken from this very interesting and informative website
https://raleigh-sb4059.com/2020/09/28/4 ... sbdu-data/


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:48 pm 
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I'd better let you know that that is originalshinkicker's website.

They are probably talking about the position of the rear wheel in the dropouts? Maybe moving the wheel back took it beyond the adjustability range of the calipers, so they moved the brake bridge down a bit to bring it back within that range?
..but you'd think that the presence of an 'horizontal' dropout slot is more or less the same effect as fork rake- mystifying us further as to why the frame has 5mm more drop at the forks..


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