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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 1:36 pm 
rBoTM Winner
rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:31 am
Posts: 725
Location: North Kent Coast UK
oaklec wrote:
STOP STOP STOP STOP

Think about what all this good advice will do???? It will be on your conscience !!

A fairly low end bike
Don't spend too much
Strip it down, clean it, paint it, replace any broken parts, ditch those levers, ditch those rims, fit new cables and pads.....
It will be a great learning exercise

And we all know what will happen next..................... the bug will bite, this poor innocent Newbie will have an entire fleet of pristine Falcon Bikes hanging around the house. By hanging I mean above the fireplace, on the back of doors, hooks on the kitchen walls.

And of course a garage full of left over scrap parts........

Barney - it's for your own good - run away now

That all sounds a little too much like the voice of bitter experience for my liking


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 1:59 pm 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:38 pm
Posts: 102
Barns150 wrote:
Chaps, honestly, thanks for trying. Really, thanks. I'm a cricketer so am intimately familiar with the woes of having a hobby consume one's entire life... however I wonder if perhaps you might already be too late. I took apart one of the calipers last night, had a go with a wire brush and steel wool, and I since then I haven't stopped thinking about how shiny it is now :D


So, after the wire wool, you'll need to move on to Autosol to avoid it becoming a corrosion petri-dish. If you become severely afflicted, there are some good videos on YouTube of mirror polishing aluminium alloy. Allegedly.

Respray in a non-original colour? The Horror!! You'll be telling us that you don't want to preserve the (<cough>awful</cough>) handlebar tape next. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2020 4:20 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:21 pm
Posts: 694
allenh wrote:
oaklec wrote:
STOP STOP STOP STOP

Think about what all this good advice will do???? It will be on your conscience !!

A fairly low end bike
Don't spend too much
Strip it down, clean it, paint it, replace any broken parts, ditch those levers, ditch those rims, fit new cables and pads.....
It will be a great learning exercise

And we all know what will happen next..................... the bug will bite, this poor innocent Newbie will have an entire fleet of pristine Falcon Bikes hanging around the house. By hanging I mean above the fireplace, on the back of doors, hooks on the kitchen walls.

And of course a garage full of left over scrap parts........

Barney - it's for your own good - run away now

That all sounds a little too much like the voice of bitter experience for my liking


No no, not at all. I don't have any bikes hanging in my kitchen.


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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 9:15 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:59 pm
Posts: 26
Methinks someone (oaklec) is in denial.
Is there a 'Bikaholics' counsellor on here who can help him
to stand up and acknowledge the problem.
Only when he is good and ready, of course.
Only then can he begin to take the bikes down
from the walls and return them to the road where
they belong.
I, of course, have no 531 frames hidden from my wife in my nor yet my father's garages.
None,
I repeat none at all. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 10:37 am 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:21 pm
Posts: 694
I'm actually ashamed to say, I only have one 531 frame. How crazy is that?


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PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2020 11:50 am 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:38 pm
Posts: 102
There are a number of good value old 531 frames on your favourite auction site right now, Oaklec. You could fix that oversight in a matter of hours. With a few butchers' hooks, they'd make great hanging frames for saucepans. It all seems perfectly rational to me, but then again there are NOT more than 3 bikes per person in our household, many with identical roles. No siree. That would be wrong.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 1:43 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 2:55 pm
Posts: 10
Progress! An update for you all. New pictures are up in the gallery: Barney's Falcon

I'll go through the lot with links to each picture and where I'm at with it.

Here it all is together:
Image

Frame
Frame
Seat tube
Seat post
Dropouts
Headtube

I've stripped most of the paint now, and almost all of the rust. I've been using a wire wheel on a drill, and Aluminium oxide paper 80 grit, both of which have been fairly effective. Same with the paint on the fork below. I'm planning to respray it. Quite like the idea of combining a bit of colour, maybe light blue, with a similar mid grey to my car...

Fork
Fork
Fork dropouts
Fork thread
Fork tube and bearing

I've got replacement bearing rings as these are bent. Have cleaned out the races, spacers etc and they've all come up nicely, although there is wear on the surface.

Stem & bars
Stem & handlebars
Headtube lower bearing race
Headtube upper bearing race
Quill stem, headset & bearings

The bars cleaned up easily once I'd got the tape off, and replacement tape is on the way. I removed the levers - these were just on metal clips - and started cleaning them up, however one is bent (is bent now, was bent before.. same difference) and I've not managed to bend it back or be able to reassemble it. So I guess I'll need new ones. probably for the best.

Bottom Bracket
BB Shell
BB Axle
BB Interior wear
Crankset & pedals

Got a crank puller and removed the crankset and BB. There was lots of crap inside and black stuff that won't come off on the bearing surfaces. Bearings themselves are knackered (same everywhere - I've got replacements for all sizes).

I did measure the BB shell, but it didn't seem to come to any of the standard measurements. The shell is 66mm from opening to opening (do you need to include the distance the lockring extends past the opening? It's 68mm if so), and the diameter of the shell is about 31/32mm. But the sizes I've been seeing are 68, 70 or 73mm, by 115 to 120ish. Not sure what the larger measurement means, and nothing I've looked at seems to explain it well. I saw an image somewhere depicting measuring from the crankwheel to the frame - is this it?

Front wheel
Front wheel
Front hub
Front axle

Plan to clean out hub, replace bearings, sand rust off rim. Replace tyres, possibly replace rim

Rear wheel
Rear wheel 1
Rear block/hub 1
Rear axle

and

Spare rear wheel
Rear wheel 2
Rear block/hub 2

Not sure what to do with these. I got a block removal tool for the first one, will be waiting a while for chain whips so I can undo the sprockets.

Brakes
Brakes 1
Brakes 1a
Brakes 2
Brakes 2a

These are cleaning up nicely and I'm really happy with them. Once degreased they returned to working smoothly.

Rear derailleur
Rear derailleur
Rear derailleur, shifter & frame fittings

Did make a start on dismantling it the other day but I want a good session available to be able to undo it all and put it back together. Rust etc is coming off but slowly. I'm not sure what exactly the remaining corrosion is - will it just be deeper rust? There's small black pits in the steel on the frame too.

Panniers, mudflaps & dynamo
Panniers & mudflaps
Dynamo

Don't know about these, may just clean up and keep in case needed.

So there we go! That's taken me I dunno.. 20 hours of work? Plus the time and money taken to order all the stuff I've needed - call that lot an investment. I could be well off here though - working from home has distorted my perception of time...

Just a picture dump and some notes really, as it's late. Let me know your thoughts :)


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 8:41 am 
rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:31 am
Posts: 725
Location: North Kent Coast UK
Well it looks like you've found a good way of filling your time in lockdown at least.

The only comments I'd make are ideally you need to get the bearing cups out of the head tube before you paint the frame, obviously there are proper tools for the job but if you're careful you can use a large long flat screwdriver and a hammer. Support the frame with a nice piece of 2x2 or similar under the tubes, put the flat of the screwdriver down inside the head tube on the flat edge of the cup with the wide edge against the the inside of the head tube so you get the most metal on metal edge to edge with the bearing cup and drift it out, you'll need to move the screwdriver around the ring as you go to keep the force on all sides but it should pop out and then turn the frame over and do the same to the other one. Ideally to do the job properly you need to do similar with the race on the top of the forks but this is harder to put back on properly when you've painted so you might not want to take this off and just mask it.

The larger measurement on the BB is for the axle length and this will be without the threads on the ends in your case, so flat face to flat face on a more modern square taper axle as they use bolts not nuts to secure the crank arms. Also if you're going to replace the BB a modern 68mm sealed BB should fit into that frame just fine but make sure the threads are clean inside the shell as the new cups will probably go in further then the originals.

That spare rear wheel is really too rusty to use, by all means take the block off the back to use as a spare and give it a clean but taking a freewheel apart will release a lot of very small bearings so if it works and just needs a clean I wouldn't bother.

Yep the deep pits on the frame are corrosion so treat it with some rust removing acid and then fill over it with a fine putty if they are too deep for a fill primer.

And some of your mechanical rubbing down might be a bit aggressive for a better quality frame as the tubing is very thin in places on good quality tubing, so bear that in mind if doing another.

Other than that I suspect we will see a very very shiny Falcon Tempo when you've finished and probably a lot less skin on your hands.


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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2020 2:13 pm 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2017 5:38 pm
Posts: 102
Replacing rims on wheels with that amount of corrosion whilst possible is perhaps not the best use of time. Alas what tends to happen is that the spokes corrode on to the nipples such that as you attempt to unwind them you either round off the flats on the nipple or break the spoke. Should you be successful, you're left with a pretty steel wheel: Which is heavier than an alloy wheel (in just the place you most want oodles of lightness) and despite the attempts made by designers (in the form of those dimples) is a woeful braking surface as compared with alloy. So, unless you're determined to make a catalogue-prefect reproduction of a Falcon Tempo, ditch the steel wheels in favour of alloys. I'll admit I haven't looked in detail at the pictures but would expect the originals to be "27 x 1.25" size rather than the now far more common 700c. Whilst you should still be able to find 27s reasonably easily, it may be possible to change to the 700c size if you wish PROVIDED THAT there is sufficient spare adjustment capacity in the brakes - you need 4mm available. This also drops the whole bike by 4mm which alters the geometry but it is unlikely to make a significant difference. If it were me, I'd just stick with a basic no-frills pair of alloy 27s.

Other than that - keep up the good work. On your next purchase, look out for FORGED ends (the bit wot the wheel bolts into) which are normally much thicker than the constant thickness pressed steel ones that mark out budget bikes. By that point, you'll most likely have a clearer idea of exactly what you will use your bike for and thus know whether you want a laid-back, soft-angled long-wheelbase low bottom bracket tourer or a twitchy, upright high bottom bracket track bike.

Looking forward to the next installment.


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PostPosted: Thu May 21, 2020 4:33 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:59 pm
Posts: 26
Hi again Barns150, brave man!
allenh is quite correct about headtube cup removal b4 painting, but I think the method description needs a little bit of clarification to make it more easily understood.
"Support the frame with a nice piece of 2x2 or similar under the tubes, (but not so as to obstruct the cup itself, which needs to be clear to come out) put (slide) the flat of the screwdriver down the inside (of) the head tube (until the flat tip of the screwdriver rests) on the flat edge of the cup (that you intend to remove), with the wide edge (of the screwdriver) against (both) the the inside of the head tube (and the cup upper flat surface) so you get the most (secure contact of) metal on metal edge to edge with the bearing cup and drift it out", (by gently bashing the top of the scwerdriver handle with your mallet or hammer).
Sorry if this seems a tad pedantic, but these can be quite tricky to remove, so need to be approached with care and attention not to damage headtube, cups, screwdriver and knuckles!
Just as he advised, don't try to drift out only on one place, but keep moving the screwdriver tip around several places on the cup upper lip before hitting again, so the cup does not jam in the headtube by getting askew.
All the best,
Robin.


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