Retrobike Forum Index

It is currently Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:26 am

* Login   * Register * Search  * FAQ



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 233 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:17 am 
BoTM | rBoTM | rider
BoTM | rBoTM | rider
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:42 pm
Posts: 4399
Location: VCC Member 5558 East Riding of Yorkshire
sherlylock wrote:
Frame number (on the fork at least - the paint on the frame is a bit too thick to see the numbers) is 503 1469 which suggests 1950?

It has the axe head lugs which I assume are bilaminates? The 1950 info on http://www.nkilgariff.com/ suggests that these were fitted to the Avant Coureur and Allrounder models.

Question is - are my assumptions right and how can I narrow down which model is it?

Another thing which I found odd - the headbadge has the outline shape of the Claud badge but is smooth with no detail on it? Was this painted/decalled originally?


Morning, nice find. :D

New Allrounder, March 1950 #1469. :wink:

Bottom of the range that year with plain gauge 531, but still head & shoulders above many others.
The Brass badge would have had a print of the Olympic rings, these were the first of the post 1948 Olympics badges, top of the range bikes having the pressed aluminium version. This flat brass version was eventually superseded by the pressed tin/alloy job that was continued (albeit with a different colour layout) by Holdsworth.


Attachments:
NewAllRounderBiLam.JPG
NewAllRounderBiLam.JPG [ 48.25 KiB | Viewed 352 times ]
NewAllrounder51.jpg
NewAllrounder51.jpg [ 174.76 KiB | Viewed 352 times ]
early badge.jpeg
early badge.jpeg [ 38.08 KiB | Viewed 352 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 4:29 pm 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:03 pm
Posts: 1499
Location: Saaa'fend, Essex
Cheers Peachy - had a brief look through that lot earlier and looks like a good find! I reckon stripping the paint may find some horrors.....there seemed to be quite a bit of filler primer on the bottom bracket shell as I was trying to get to the frame number......as mentioned the forks look slightly bent, although I whipped the forks off last night and only lightly screwed the headset nut down so it's all proper loose - maybe that's causing the illusion (they don't look bent in the fb ad).

Cool - pleased with that.......couple of real Clauds and a couple of Holdsworth Clauds in the fleet now. :)

Will start a build thread in due course......


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:09 pm 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:03 pm
Posts: 1499
Location: Saaa'fend, Essex
Peachy - those catalogue entries are for '51 arent they? Just wondering if it is an Allrounder - just that it mentions that the seat stays are fluted and chamfered at the seat cluster. All the New Allrounders I can find online have what I would describe as a fluted top the the seat stays......whereas mine are wrap around style.

Also I'm struggling to find any Allrounders with the same fork crown as mine.......with the long spike in the centre. But several frames claiming to be Avant Couriers that have that style of crown, coupled with wrap around stays. Any other features that would distinguish one from the other?

Gonna have a play at getting through the top layers of paint and see if I can unearth any of the original markings. Highly unlikely I know but worth a try.

It was this sales thread that made me wonder:

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1950- ... ork.77166/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:29 pm 
BoTM | rBoTM | rider
BoTM | rBoTM | rider
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:42 pm
Posts: 4399
Location: VCC Member 5558 East Riding of Yorkshire
sherlylock wrote:
Peachy - those catalogue entries are for '51 arent they? Just wondering if it is an Allrounder - just that it mentions that the seat stays are fluted and chamfered at the seat cluster. All the New Allrounders I can find online have what I would describe as a fluted top the the seat stays......whereas mine are wrap around style.

Also I'm struggling to find any Allrounders with the same fork crown as mine.......with the long spike in the centre. But several frames claiming to be Avant Couriers that have that style of crown, coupled with wrap around stays. Any other features that would distinguish one from the other?

Gonna have a play at getting through the top layers of paint and see if I can unearth any of the original markings. Highly unlikely I know but worth a try.

It was this sales thread that made me wonder:

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1950- ... frame-and-
fork.77166/


Yes... not having the ‘50 cat is a pain, as soon as I do I’ll get it up on the Nkilgariff site.
I still think it’s an Allrounder as it doesn’t have the Continental rear drop-outs that the AC had, plus also the ‘49 New Allrounder didn’t have fluted tops to the seat stays either....

One clue may be in the weight. Once you’ve completely and utterly stripped everything off of the frame, weigh it and that might give us an idea if it’s butted or plain gauge. If the former I think you could be excused for calling it an Avant Coureur, but if it’s plain then it’s definitely a New Allrounder.

My 531 plain gauged Jubilee frame is 2.1kg


Last edited by Peachy! on Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2020 6:36 pm 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:03 pm
Posts: 1499
Location: Saaa'fend, Essex
Peachy! wrote:
sherlylock wrote:
Peachy - those catalogue entries are for '51 arent they? Just wondering if it is an Allrounder - just that it mentions that the seat stays are fluted and chamfered at the seat cluster. All the New Allrounders I can find online have what I would describe as a fluted top the the seat stays......whereas mine are wrap around style.

Also I'm struggling to find any Allrounders with the same fork crown as mine.......with the long spike in the centre. But several frames claiming to be Avant Couriers that have that style of crown, coupled with wrap around stays. Any other features that would distinguish one from the other?

Gonna have a play at getting through the top layers of paint and see if I can unearth any of the original markings. Highly unlikely I know but worth a try.

It was this sales thread that made me wonder:

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1950- ... frame-and-
fork.77166/


Yes... not having the ‘50 cat is a pain, as soon as I do I’ll get it up on the Nkilgariff site.
I still think it’s an Allrounder as it doesn’t have the Continental rear drop-outs that the AC had, plus also the ‘49 New Allrounder didn’t have fluted tops to the seat stays either....

One clue may be in the weight. Once you’ve completely and utterly stripped everything off of the frame, weigh it and that might give us an idea if it’s butted or plain gauge. If the former I think you could be excused for calling it an Avant Coureur, but if it’s plain then it’s definitely a New Allrounder.


Ahh ok......coolio. I might strip it all back tonight if I get time. Not really bothered which model it it either way - just be nice to order up the right decals when I come to refinishing it. Thanks for your input as always - appreciated! :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:34 am 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:03 pm
Posts: 1499
Location: Saaa'fend, Essex
Peachy! wrote:
sherlylock wrote:
Peachy - those catalogue entries are for '51 arent they? Just wondering if it is an Allrounder - just that it mentions that the seat stays are fluted and chamfered at the seat cluster. All the New Allrounders I can find online have what I would describe as a fluted top the the seat stays......whereas mine are wrap around style.

Also I'm struggling to find any Allrounders with the same fork crown as mine.......with the long spike in the centre. But several frames claiming to be Avant Couriers that have that style of crown, coupled with wrap around stays. Any other features that would distinguish one from the other?

Gonna have a play at getting through the top layers of paint and see if I can unearth any of the original markings. Highly unlikely I know but worth a try.

It was this sales thread that made me wonder:

https://thecabe.com/forum/threads/1950- ... frame-and-
fork.77166/


Yes... not having the ‘50 cat is a pain, as soon as I do I’ll get it up on the Nkilgariff site.
I still think it’s an Allrounder as it doesn’t have the Continental rear drop-outs that the AC had, plus also the ‘49 New Allrounder didn’t have fluted tops to the seat stays either....

One clue may be in the weight. Once you’ve completely and utterly stripped everything off of the frame, weigh it and that might give us an idea if it’s butted or plain gauge. If the former I think you could be excused for calling it an Avant Coureur, but if it’s plain then it’s definitely a New Allrounder.

My 531 plain gauged Jubilee frame is 2.1kg


Stripped it down last night (it's an odd mix of components!) to a bare frame. Everything came apart ok.

Bare frame is 1955g, forks 795g. I think the frame is a 23" (measures 23" crank centre to the underside of the seat clamp).

Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:43 am 
BoTM | rBoTM | rider
BoTM | rBoTM | rider
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:42 pm
Posts: 4399
Location: VCC Member 5558 East Riding of Yorkshire
sherlylock wrote:

Stripped it down last night (it's an odd mix of components!) to a bare frame. Everything came apart ok.

Bare frame is 1955g, forks 795g. I think the frame is a 23" (measures 23" crank centre to the underside of the seat clamp).


Ok, so that's interesting... my 23" fillet brazed plain 531 Jubilee weighs 2105g, if you were to add lets say at least 100g for Bi-laminates, that might suggest a plain gauged 23" New Allrounder should be in the ball park of 2200+ g...

So, would butted 531 save 250g? seems a fair enough assumption....

In light of that, would it be fair to call this an Avant Coureur? :|

****EDIT**** I've just looked more closely at the above photo on a big screen (as opposed to my phone) it looks like she once had continental dropouts just that the prongs have been snapped/cut off...if that's the case its definitely an AC


Attachments:
Capture.JPG
Capture.JPG [ 32.86 KiB | Viewed 310 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:17 pm 
Retro Guru
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:03 pm
Posts: 1499
Location: Saaa'fend, Essex
Peachy! wrote:
sherlylock wrote:

Stripped it down last night (it's an odd mix of components!) to a bare frame. Everything came apart ok.

Bare frame is 1955g, forks 795g. I think the frame is a 23" (measures 23" crank centre to the underside of the seat clamp).


Ok, so that's interesting... my 23" fillet brazed plain 531 Jubilee weighs 2105g, if you were to add lets say at least 100g for Bi-laminates, that might suggest a plain gauged 23" New Allrounder should be in the ball park of 2200+ g...

So, would butted 531 save 250g? seems a fair enough assumption....

In light of that, would it be fair to call this an Avant Coureur? :|

****EDIT**** I've just looked more closely at the above photo on a big screen (as opposed to my phone) it looks like she once had continental dropouts just that the prongs have been snapped/cut off...if that's the case its definitely an AC


I saw your comment about the Continental dropouts which I'd seen had the long "hook" shaped feature.......but wasn't sure what the alternative was so assumed that they weren't them.......but looking at that image the cutout and remains of the hook are pretty conclusive........good stuff, great detective work. Cheers Peachy. An Avent Coureur then......

Lightly sanding through the layers of paint seems to reveal a vivid lime green colour.......presumably original. I'll take the headbadge off later to see for sure, presuming it wasn't removed when resprayed.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:14 pm 
BoTM | rBoTM | rider
BoTM | rBoTM | rider
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:42 pm
Posts: 4399
Location: VCC Member 5558 East Riding of Yorkshire
My pleasure.... build thread now please... come on, chop chop :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:06 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:53 pm
Posts: 11
I just weighed my 1951 New Allrounder, 21-3/4" frame.
Frame 2134 gm, fork 744 gm.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 233 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: glpinxit, jm, Orbit531C and 38 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

About Us

Follow Retrobike

Other cool stuff

All content © 2005-2015 Retrobike unless otherwise stated.
Cookies Policy.
bikedeals - the best bike deals in one place
FatCOGS - Fat Chance Owner's Group

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group