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PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 9:47 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:07 pm
Posts: 1682
Location: Cotswolds
Without checking frame numbers I would have though its about 1950/51. It had quick release mudguard eyes brazed on. Cast lugs with a lot of work.

I doubt that stamping numbers on a steerer would weaken it. The critical point is the joint at the fork crown. It has been known to fracture due to perhaps an accident, but 531 would probably be OK. This is where the French racers had to fit a piece of wood up the bottom of the steerer held in by the brake bolt.

Keith


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 3:50 pm 
Newbie

Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:16 pm
Posts: 4
Thanks to all for your replies. It appears that the Holdsworth frame in CB guise is accurate. I’ve attached some more photos; straight rear brake bar, original seat bolt missing (replaced with standard bolt). I’ve seen the front fork design on Holdsworth bikes on web.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2020 5:10 pm 
Old School Hero

Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:32 pm
Posts: 199
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Straight rear brake bridge was introduced on all Holdsworthy frames in 1974. However the factory Pro did have a straight bridge when it was introduced a few years earlier.

Must be the Holdsworth, Special model which appears to be introduced in 1974. The 4 digit serial system was used by factory for custom (ie made to measure or special builds) and for frames that were made for other shops for self branding. This would have fit as a custom build as the Holdsworth Special did not have a comparable Claud clone and must have been a request to be done up as a Claud. Any idea of where this may have been purchased origianlly? Original owner's name Flanagan might suggest Ireland? Wasn't uncommon for a bike to have owners name on top tube.

This 4 digit serial system seems to have spanned years 1970 until mid 1976 and it is somewhat unclear whether completely sequential or a new year commenced with first digit representing year. Looking at examples in David's data would suggest the former to me. The highest number until your "5511" ? was 4905. Is it perhaps 3511?

Will be great to get confirmation of number from stem as might help with sorting this early 70's serial sequence and give a clearer ID of your frame's date.


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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 3:30 pm 
Newbie

Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:16 pm
Posts: 4
Lockdown boredom and borrowed tools leads to stem frame number confirmation as 5511. Almost certainly bought in Ireland, it was renovated by The Bike Shop in Clonard, Meath, Ireland according to frame sticker. So not a Claud Butler, but perhaps a Holdsworth as mentioned above.


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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 7:39 pm 
Old School Hero

Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:32 pm
Posts: 199
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
Good have number confirmed.

So... number 5511 points to 1975 or perhaps more likely 1976. Yours is the highest number of the 24 examples of the "4D" factory serial system for special order builds that Dave has recorded on his Excel list. I am beginning to think this "4D" system must have been sequential and yours is one of the last to be numbered using this system prior to new 6D system being commenced in mid 1976. The 6D system always commenced with a zero and all Holdsworth, Clauds and whether special builds or not, were in this same system. To my knowledge, Holdsworthy never used a system that incorporated a date code.

The prior dead ringer to your frame that I linked to has a definite 1976 new 6D number.
https://k-i-n-g.ch/en/holdsworth-531-special

The kilgariff catalogue for 1976 has a pic and a drawing of the 531 Special. Looks pretty much as yours except drawing of fork crown is different, however write up is described as a flat crown with a diamond pattern. We've found that sometimes catalogue pics and drawings have not apparently been updated from prior catalogues.

Interesting you say that this frame was renovated in a smaller shop in Clonard, not far from Dublin Ireland. This would explain the hammered rivets in head badge. If paint was original from factory in mid 70's it would likely have had pop rivets. With the repaint, the question arises whether this Holdsworth frame was painted up as a Claud from get go or altered when renovated. I'd favour the former.

I'll try to raise dwscrimshaw and see what he might add.


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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2020 8:16 pm 
BoTM & rBoTM Winner
BoTM & rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:42 pm
Posts: 3791
Location: VCC Member 5558 East Riding of Yorkshire
Good work as usual Doug


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 9:45 am 
Newbie

Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 9:22 am
Posts: 2
Hi all, I'm trying to identify a Claud frame I picked up a few years ago and I'm not having much luck! My best guess from the serial No. (58638) is early 70's and as for the model I would hazard a guess at a Torino from the wrapover seat stays and Reynolds sticker but would love to get an expert opinion on this. I can't see a model name and the paint doesn't appear to match any catalogue images from around that time (although it does look to have been touched up by hand in the past so this might not be original). I'll add in a few pictures, any help would be greatly appreciated!


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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2020 10:38 am 
BoTM & rBoTM Winner
BoTM & rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:42 pm
Posts: 3791
Location: VCC Member 5558 East Riding of Yorkshire
1970 Torino...... 8)

Very much original paint job.... near top of the range (super was top with chrome & sloped fork shoulders/crown)
Rare-ish, definitely sort after... worth a few quid. hopefully we'll see you post a build/restoration thread?


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 3:46 pm 
Newbie

Joined: Sun May 03, 2020 9:22 am
Posts: 2
Thanks for confirming! Sounds like it's definitely worth a bit of TLC, I'm planning on at least restoring the paintwork...as for after that I'm yet to decide


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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2020 12:15 pm 
Newbie

Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 11:17 am
Posts: 3
I'm trying to identify an old CB bike I found hidden at the back of my father in laws garage. It's had a repaint at some point and is pretty filthy.
Thanks to the great info from Peachy! and http://www.nkilgariff.com, I think I'm nearly there.
From the frame number it's a 1954 bike without any brazed lugs. From the 1954 catalogue, it looks like a Jubilee but there are some anomaly's:
It has GB Coureur brakes (from better models) and a grease point on the bottom bracket.
It also has straight bars (later addition?) and the chainring & pedals are replacements.

My first thought was to do a full restoration but I haven't attempted anything on this scale before - am I mad?!
Any thoughts and identification help would be gratefully received.
Cheers, Richard.


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