Holdsworth background

I've just bought what I believe is a 1961 Holdsworth, with quite a bit of history from the seller. The bike belonged to childhood friend of his from Harrow. Unfortunately the owner passed away 10 years ago and the guy I bought it from was given it by the owners widow. His friend had the bike from the late 60s. Trouble is it doesn't seem to confirm to any standard Holdsworth models so I'm keen to get more info/advice on what it's background might be. It's had a poor respray at some point and is wearing the wrong decals, things I intend to put right. The frame and fork serial numbers match, which is 28861 which suggests it's a 1961 model. It's wearing Universal centre pull breaks which are stamped with 61 (and I understand Universal only made centre pulls that year). Lugs are fairly simple, especially by the bottom bracket and on the forks.
Hubs are Campag with Fiamme tubless rims. Rear mech is Campag Gran Sport. Stem is Ambrosio Gran Prix. Stronglight cranks and I think the same chainring. In it's current form it's fairly light, weighing in at 10kg. Have posted some photos but can add more if it would help. Thanks in advance.

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A few more photos

Hello animal7,
Here is a useful thread to check up on Holdsworth numbers;
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=362572&hilit=holdsworth+frame+numbers

I think maybe it is a 61, but the 61 in the number may just be a coincidence

49D cranks with TA ring is about right for 1961, generally Campagnolo were replacing these at that time.
The lug pattern (Italian Style) was newly replacing Nervex and various cut-outs in the latest fashion by 1961.

Keith

Wonder what the seat cluster looks like? Does it have full wrapover seat stays? Long or short? Thick or thin? Is there an integral seat post clamp? Fender eyes? Features of RD cable guide, stop/guide on drive side chain stay? (Kilgariff has said that Holdsworthy went all "Italian" by 1963 and they became UK distributor for Prugnat.) Features queried above would help differentiate a factory Prugnat I Mistral which did not start until '63 versus perhaps a Shop Italia. Have you checked out 1964 Mistral catalogue on Kilgariff's site? Sold as frame set only. I'd bet this is what you have, however premature on my part without more frame pics.

Frame dating from 61-65 serials is difficult as Holdsworthy serial and shop batches were reset to a 4D system in '62 or '63 and restarted back to 5D by '65. This is helpful to understand difficulty: http://retroride.blogspot.ca/2007/05/ho ... _1672.html

No cable guide for front changer is a bit strange on a frame of this vintage. And a grease nipple? The GS rear mech is probably earlier than the frame as it has the cable adjuster etc. Did Universal only make CP brakes in 1961? I'm sure I remember them being around for longer. The wheel clearances point to it being built for 27" wheels as well as the ones fitted which are 700C size for tubular tyres (not tubeless, they didn't exist until very recemtly on bikes) so probably mudguard fittings should be there as well. The lugs look very 'Holdsworth' as used on many of their generic frames (eg Claud Butler 'Torino') but it would be nice, as mentioned above, to see if the seat cluster is 'typical' too.

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Thanks for all the help so far guys. Great intel.

So from what I've seen so far I'm almost certain this is a 1961 frame. Serial #28861 definitely falls into 1961 before they went 4 digit in '62 and then kicked off again with #29650 in 1965 (and yes I gathered the 61 ending was a pure coincidence and not pointing to the year - although the guy who sold it thought that was the case).

Here are some new photos of the drive side chain stay, seat stays (wrapover) and seat cluster.

Yes, sorry, meant tubular not tubeless. A few years too early....

Also corrected on the Universal CP brakes. They were introduced in 1961 (and used in the TdF that year) but ran for many years after that. Apparently not very effective either.

There are some obvious differences, but the closest I've seen in terms of frame design is a Holdsworth track bike currently for sale on ebay at
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Hold ... 1438.l2649


When I finally get around to getting this stripped down and resprayed what colour and detailing should I go for? I actually really like the light blue or similar. Does it really matter?

This is a definite factory Mistral. It was launched and also the first year for Prugnat lugs was 1963. The Mistral was only sold as a frame set during first few years - so bike wouldn't have come from Holdsworth with present kit. So... I think unlikely to be a 1961 frame.

The years 61 to 65 with reset of serial for maybe '62 to '64 years is a very difficult period to base frame dating from serial number alone. Dave Scrimshaw's prediction table is a work in progress, a guide only, has a range of error and as he says is to be used along with history and frame features. As more data surfaces, like your frame, the prediction will be revised.

Perhaps you have seen, but here is pic of '64 catalog page (earliest available) pirated off Kilgariff site:

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Thanks CBGuy - definitely looks like a Mistral. Yup, saw that