Chas Roberts frame numbers

Can someone here help, please?

I have picked up a nice blue little number today, photos to follow.

Frame number is 8925. Would that suggest a frameset made on the 2nd May, 1989?

Thanks

Mike

Mike Muz 67":yjdoq8z1 said:

Can someone here help, please?

I have picked up a nice blue little number today, photos to follow.

Frame number is 8925. Would that suggest a frameset made on the 2nd May, 1989?

Thanks

Mike

Click to expand...

Mike,
not necessarily.
Having contributed to an article on Roberts a year or so ago I may be qualified to comment. The Roberts numbering system in some respects follows no logic - my own three Roberts road frames have three digit frame numbers and are early frames. The post 1979 numbering system switched from a 4, 5 and 6 figure system to a more consistent 6 figure one - your 4 figure number falls outside this later system.
Example, frame number 010101 was the first frame built in 2001, Chas commented that the system sometimes varied (!) when frames were earmarked for trade or for painting by a third party - this is after Roberts ceased painting in house and subbed out to Dave at Colortech. The first numbering system ran from (approx) 100 to 2100.
An image of your frame would help in the dating.
I have another (#4) Roberts - frameset and this is a 1980s one, so comparing the two might help.
Hope this helps a little.
Jon.

Re:

Thanks Jon,

Confirmed by Geoff Roberts (?)to be a Feb 5th 1989 frameset. Were they working together? Or is it a Geoff Roberts frame? :?

Here's some photos anyway, really vibrant blue, hard to make out from photos though.

IMG_1732 by Michael Murray, on Flickr

IMG_1733 by Michael Murray, on Flickr

IMG_1735 by Michael Murray, on Flickr

Not sure what Columbus tubing it is ( the drop outs are Columbus ) but for a 22 1/2" c-c frame, it weighs 1995g, with the forks coming in at 775g

Mike

Re:

Geoff may have been working with Chas at Gloucester Road in 1989 - they had a big falling out, so dates aren't clear. If he wasn't with Chas I don't think you have a GR (Geoff wouldn't have been using the Roberts engraved parts, although I know he has some now). Geoff had a layoff for sometime after leaving Chas before setting up on his own.

You have the engraved fork crown, but not the seatstay caps, I assume the same number is on the steerer ? Yours is a Gloucester Road frame - Roberts moved there in '83, the last address before closure.

I'm sure your frame has had a repaint, I've not seen the Roberts script on the top tube before. Do you have a plan for it yet ?

Jon.

P.S I also have two Roberts built Geoffrey Butlers.

Re:

I have been in touch with Geoff, regarding the history. Very helpful chap.

He worked in Croydon until 2002, when he started up on his own, in East Sussex, near where I picked the frameset up from today, as it goes!

The seatstay bridge is engraved, and like you, I think it's had a respray.

I had planned to swap the Shimano 6400 g/set from my Bianchi to this, but I'm having trouble parting with the Italian one, it just looks too damn nice. So no plans as yet. Couldn't resist the price for this frameset, tbh.

Mike

Re:

Geoff is a good guy, he works near a relative of mine...I don't think he worked with Chas until 2002 ! He had a long layoff before he started building again.

I'd like to see it sometime, my 1980s Roberts is at the Sussex house at the moment.

jon.

Re:

Well according to him , he did.

Here's a photo of a photo of my very first Roberts frameset, from 1996. Note the decal on the top tube.

IMG_0835 by Michael Murray, on Flickr

I do actually like one there. The '96 frame also had them on the fork blades, unlike this one.

Mike

Re:

Steady on Mike !

What we were told for the article, which was published in a magazine, was that Geoff left sometime after the move to Gloucester Road (so post 1983) and he set up business at Brands Hatch after a layoff, he also worked with Ron Cooper and more lately Enigma where he ran framebuilding courses...and now he's in Hailsham (not far from Enigma).

I still have my first Roberts frameset, it's one of the oldest Roberts known - built by Chas and Geoff's Father. Bought for my 16th birthday.

The decal on the top tube - of your old frame - is not in the traditional Roberts typeface - which is what I was referring to (on your new blue frame).

Jon.

Re:

Just adding what I've been told, Jon, nothing more.
Didn't realize he worked at Enigma, a lot of the Kent club racers used those frames in the '90s

Mike

Re: Re:

Mike Muz 67":1sj6wk0n said:

Thanks Jon,

Confirmed by Geoff Roberts (?)to be a Feb 5th 1989 frameset. Were they working together? Or is it a Geoff Roberts frame? :?

Here's some photos anyway, really vibrant blue, hard to make out from photos though.

IMG_1732 by Michael Murray, on Flickr

IMG_1733 by Michael Murray, on Flickr

IMG_1735 by Michael Murray, on Flickr

Not sure what Columbus tubing it is ( the drop outs are Columbus ) but for a 22 1/2" c-c frame, it weighs 1995g, with the forks coming in at 775g

Mike

Click to expand...

You did well there. Glad it went to a good home.