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PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:00 pm 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:01 pm
Posts: 145
Location: Brandon, Suffolk, UK
Looks very nice.

I can see that the brakes are probably original as is the Williams chainset. This should carry a code on the back of both cranks and the chainring - something like AN or AP under the Williams EBW logo. The wheels are clearly later - to my eyes they look small - 26 inch rims ?. The originals would have 27 inch with 32/40 spokes front/rear.

I also think that my earlier statement that this was made after Holdsworth took over Grubb was wrong. Grubb went bust in 1951 (stock auctioned by the receiver in May 1951) but re-started for a while as The F H Grubb Cycle Company which was very short lived. The name was then acquired by Holdsworth (Easter 1952) who offered a very limited range of machines through the 50's. I think that this frame is a product of the short lived operation from the period just before Holdsworth acquired the name. I agree with OldTel in that I think that this is a Southern Cross.

The frame number appears to date this to late 1951 / early 1952 in my opinion. The highest frame number in the auction catalogue of May 1951 was 2851. I am not sure what the earliest frame number recorded for a Holdsworth Grubb frame is but I will ask the VCC marque enthusiast who will know the answer.

All in all, an interesting example of a 'real' Grubb. Are you selling it on here ?


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:47 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:35 am
Posts: 67
The rims that I took off it were 'Dunlop Social lightweight'? marked 26" x 1 1/4 so i just replaced with some basic 26" wheels just to complete it, if the dunlops were not original then I have no idea what they would of been.

The brakes are GB super hood levers albeit with only one adjuster. still trying to sort out a work around for this. And hindinium calipers. Haven't had a chance to check for markings on the chainset, didn't see anything initially when cleaning them up. Was able to use the original Bayliss and Wiley Bottom bracket but with new bearings in. The headset is stamped Brampton, again, with new bearings. I have got everything to complete it (chain, brake cables, pads etc.) and am finishing it off one evening this week.

I do plan to sell it on here, hopefully before Christmas as I am going on holiday on NYE and could do with the cash injection. I understand I'll never get the money for my hours of polishing and cleaning, that was just for the love of restoration, but like you say, its a nice mongrel example of a real Grubb and a lot of time has gone in to salvaging some parts that would otherwise have been tipped.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:03 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 10:44 pm
Posts: 49
Location: London
Keep those Dunlop Special Lightweight rims!


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:03 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:35 am
Posts: 67
I indeed to keep them! The rims and hubs will polish up nicely so gonna chop the wheels up and polish them, then include them in the sale. The spokes were either falling apart in my hand or held together with cobwebs.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:29 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:35 am
Posts: 67
As you can see in the rear of the photo, the hubs came up quite nicely even when the wheels were together so once they're chopped up, stripped and polished they'll be more than useable! And very nice too!
The rims have a lot of corrosion to the braking surface but I'm sure would be fine.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:01 pm 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:01 pm
Posts: 145
Location: Brandon, Suffolk, UK
Hubs look like Bayliss Wiley Continentals to my eyes. I still think that this machine should have 27 inch wheels as I am certain that Grubb did not make this frame for 26 inch although Dunlop Special Lightweight rims would likely be correct. I assume that there are no gears since it has a single speed freewheel.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:29 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:35 am
Posts: 67
It may have been 27" initially but I was just interested in saving the bike and getting it back on the road so I have just replaced like for like. I didn't know any better if I'm being honest. That is for the new owner to decide. But it'll be perfectly rideable when sold. Even if it is with more budget parts. The original wheels were single speed yes, with the fixed gear cog on the other side. Both of which are certainly too far gone, if they can even be got off the hub. We'll see when I start chopping them up.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:51 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:35 am
Posts: 67
These are the stamps on the crank arms and chainring. Couldn't make them out myself but I'm sure someone in the know would recognise them...


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:14 pm 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:01 pm
Posts: 145
Location: Brandon, Suffolk, UK
The crank / chain ring have date code AP. This means that Williams manufactured them in 1952. This fits perfectly with the date suggested. As to the freewheel / fixed wheel sprockets, it is better to get them removed BEFORE you cut the spokes out as it is nigh on impossible to remove a freewheel attached to a hub after the spokes / rim are removed. The only way normally is to strip the freewheel and clamp it all in a vice. If you cannot remove them, a local bike shop should be able to. The hubs are worth saving for certain. The rims may be dependant on condition. Normally Dunlop chrome rims from this period are badly rusted due to the plating being very poor (in the early 50's nickel was in short supply and the use of it was banned for a while by the government so plating was sometimes done direct onto mild steel - hopeless really as chrome plate is porous !)
You mentioned that the adjuster on one brake lever is missing ? Are the levers GB Superhoods ?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:25 pm 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2016 2:01 pm
Posts: 145
Location: Brandon, Suffolk, UK
Another tip. If and when you remove the hubs, it is better to use a spoke key to loosen the spoke nipples - say every fourth one - then every third etc before you cut the spokes - in fact, it is better to use the key to unscrew the nipples totally rather than cutting the spokes, but it more time consuming. If this is impossible due to the spokes being rusted into the nipples, cut every fourth spoke on one side, then the same on the other side and so on - this will at least maintain some balance of tension. If you just cut away working round the rim you may find that your rims end up badly distorted and difficult for a wheel builder to lace up later. I have seen rims that look like a figure of 8 when viewed from the side !!
Both the above are based of my own experiences !!


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