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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:50 pm 
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fiks wrote:
As far as I know, Super/Nuovo Record hubs were only marked as "Record" (the ones with the black oil hole cover clip). And Super/Nuovo Record cranks were only ever marked as "Strada" or "Pista".

If it's late 80s, it would not be Super Record as 1985 was the lsat year for Super/Nuovo Record, although the stuff was still available for a few years after that.


By 'it' I meant Record, not Super Record.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:21 pm 
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I don't believe Super Record hubs were ever produced. They appear in the No 17 catalogue (with titanium axles and nuts) but didn't make it to production.

There's always debate about which components were Record, which Nuovo Record, and which Super. As far as I know, the hubs were always just Record. Before a point in the sixties they were just marked "Campagnolo" (and are known as "No Record" these days) then they got RECORD in capitals.

Record and Super Record cranks were identical (and marked PISTA or STRADA as fiks says) but the chainrings were different. So if you bought a Super Record crankset, it had Record cranks (751 and 752) with Super Record (753A) chainrings.

If you look at the No 17 catalogue, it makes the distinction between Record and Nuovo Record components within the Record group - for example Record cranks, but Nuovo Record bottom bracket.

http://www.campyonly.com/history/catalogs.html


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:18 am 
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This is mainly about the 1967-1985 era, it seems to me that there are more than one way of naming any particular component.

First there is the part itself, Off the top of my head, I think it was only the the rear mechs that ever had "Nuovo Record" or "Super Record" on them. Most only had "Campagnolo", eg the seatpins and brakes (although the Gran Sport brakes had G.S. on them). And the hubs had "Record".

Second; the name on the box. Eg, the Super Record front mech came in a blue box with "Super Record" on the box but not on the part itself.

Third, the groupsets as shown in the catalogues. Eg, the exact same Record hubs were included in both the Super Record and the Nuovo Record groupsets. So I suppose that's why people usually called them "Super Record" or "Nuovo Record" hubs.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:57 am 
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fiks wrote:
This is mainly about the 1967-1985 era, it seems to me that there are more than one way of naming any particular component.

First there is the part itself, Off the top of my head, I think it was only the the rear mechs that ever had "Nuovo Record" or "Super Record" on them. Most only had "Campagnolo", eg the seatpins and brakes (although the Gran Sport brakes had G.S. on them). And the hubs had "Record".

Right, a lot of the Gran Sport parts were marked G.S., presumably because they were superficially similar to Record in some cases, but generally of lesser finish.

Quote:
Second; the name on the box. Eg, the Super Record front mech came in a blue box with "Super Record" on the box but not on the part itself.

Third, the groupsets as shown in the catalogues. Eg, the exact same Record hubs were included in both the Super Record and the Nuovo Record groupsets. So I suppose that's why people usually called them "Super Record" or "Nuovo Record" hubs.

I think that's where the argument comes a little unstuck. The catalogues never listed a Nuovo Record group - it was always just Record - and where the parts in a group were specified it was always made clear whether or not they were Record, Super, Nuovo, or even in some cases "Nuovo Super Record". The No.18 catalogue, for example, lists the Super Record group:

SUPER RECORD Road Group:
4000/F
SUPER RECORD Road Campagnolo Group composed of
Super Record brakes
Super Record gear
Record hubs set
Super Record road chainset
Nuovo Record bottom bracket
Record road superlight pedals
Super Record headset
Nuovo Super Record seat-pin
Superlight toeclips

Where there was a name on the part or on the box, it generally agreed with the description in the catalogue, hence the cranks are just described as road or track (STRADA or PISTA) but once the chainrings are attached they become Record or Super Record chainsets.

I agree that people make the association, which is why you get people selling "Super Record" hubs on eBay, and mistaking Superleggeri pedals (with steel axles) for Super Record (with titanium).


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:49 pm 
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one-eyed_jim wrote:
fiks wrote:
Second; the name on the box. Eg, the Super Record front mech came in a blue box with "Super Record" on the box but not on the part itself.

Third, the groupsets as shown in the catalogues. Eg, the exact same Record hubs were included in both the Super Record and the Nuovo Record groupsets. So I suppose that's why people usually called them "Super Record" or "Nuovo Record" hubs.

I think that's where the argument comes a little unstuck. The catalogues never listed a Nuovo Record group - it was always just Record - and where the parts in a group were specified it was always made clear whether or not they were Record, Super, Nuovo, or even in some cases "Nuovo Super Record". The No.18 catalogue, for example, lists the Super Record group:

SUPER RECORD Road Group:
4000/F
SUPER RECORD Road Campagnolo Group composed of
Super Record brakes
Super Record gear
Record hubs set
Super Record road chainset
Nuovo Record bottom bracket
Record road superlight pedals
Super Record headset
Nuovo Super Record seat-pin
Superlight toeclips

Where there was a name on the part or on the box, it generally agreed with the description in the catalogue, hence the cranks are just described as road or track (STRADA or PISTA) but once the chainrings are attached they become Record or Super Record chainsets.

I agree that people make the association, which is why you get people selling "Super Record" hubs on eBay, and mistaking Superleggeri pedals (with steel axles) for Super Record (with titanium).


You're correct, my mistake, I've just had a look at a catalogue and there's no "Nuovo Record" groupset! And the cranks were listed as just L.H. road or track and R.H. road or track.

IMHO, "Super Record hubs" and "Nuovo Record hubs" are OK, and were commonly used, although Campagnolo never used those names for the hubs, at least not in the catalogues, they were part of the Super Record groupset and the groupset that had the Nuovo Record rear mech. However I agree that to call the SL pedals "Super Record" is just wrong because the Super Record pedals was a different pedal.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:21 am 
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fiks wrote:
IMHO, "Super Record hubs" and "Nuovo Record hubs" are OK, and were commonly used, although Campagnolo never used those names for the hubs, at least not in the catalogues, they were part of the Super Record groupset and the groupset that had the Nuovo Record rear mech. However I agree that to call the SL pedals "Super Record" is just wrong because the Super Record pedals was a different pedal.

I still think it's more honest to call the hubs just plain Record (or Nuovo Record). People like to say "Super Record" because it's more glamorous, but again there was (at least theoretically) a Super Record hub (in catalogue 17) that isn't the hub that came with the Super Record group.

I do agree that it makes sense to have a shorthand to use in casual discussion. If you just say "Record", that can include anything from chromed bronze to carbon fibre. "Nuovo Record" places things firmly in a certain time bracket, even if it's taking liberties with the details, and mostly you can be pretty sure you'll be understood.


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