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dwscrimshaw
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:08 pm 
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Location: Colchester, Essex
Thanks for the link, I have to say that is not shouting Holdsworth to me. The frame number is similar but often on the other side of BB or 180 degree rotated. If Holdsworth it would be from the 5 digit numbering system and place this early 50's so I would expect far more fancy lug work and a curved rear brake bridge.

Unless there is a less common frame that someone can suggest I feel this is a much latter frame from some other builder. I would suggest 70/80's, but the Huret drop outs may suggested earlier still. Nice frame though well worth investigating further.
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keithglos
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:01 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:07 pm
Posts: 1599
Location: Cotswolds
Holdsworthy Company were importers and wholesalers, suppliers to the trade.
Its quite possible for a retailer to have a frame in stock for a year.

When I was retailing in the 60's Holdsworthy were able to supply most of their lines including frames immediately from stock. Most frames were standard designs and finishes. I have no idea about stock levels, probably 2 or 3 weeks production?

Keith
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dwscrimshaw
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:35 pm 
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Location: Colchester, Essex
Thanks that highlights the issue we have with receipted frames, its not necessarily an indication of when it was built.
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PerB
PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:41 pm
Posts: 151
Location: Oslo Norway
I came across one more Holdsworth framed DBS the other day. I resisted the temptation to buy as it was to small for me and to nice be used as a donor bike for the Campa Nuovo groupe. The serial number on this one is 010757, According to the dekor on the frame its possibly sold in 1978 here in Norway. (The Campa group has 1979 datemarks, but the frame is possibly been sold as a bare frame and assembled with the group later.)
This frame does not have the full wraparound seat stay as om my approx 1976 bike. The frame is identical to my frame, serial number 013144 which is likely to be sold during the 1979 season.

I
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dwscrimshaw
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:20 am 
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Thanks, I have add this number.

I am currently looking at the 6D numbers as I think some modification of the chart is in order. Would you have any views on how long is typical between build date and sale fr these frames?
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Camaleonte
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:32 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:15 am
Posts: 6
Location: Stockholm
Hi,
Great forum and interesting topic!
I´ve recently bought an old bike from a relative of mine. It´s an old DBS Professionale from Jonas Oegland A/S in Norway. I believe the frame was manufactured by Holdsworth, according to the serial number 008926 possibly in early 1978. The tubing is Reynolds 531 with wrap over seat stays and Campagnolo dropouts. The full DA group concists mostly of 7100 parts made from june to september 1977, although the rings seems to be from the first generation.

It would be nice to have some confirmation whether my assumptions are correct or not.

Best regards,
Patrik


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PerB
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:41 pm
Posts: 151
Location: Oslo Norway
Nice bike you have there, I got some indication today pointing towards 1977 for the type of dekor used on your bike, The bike I inspected the other day has the same decor with the golden ring at each end of the decal.
The lead I got to day was a picture of a special built DBS with Giovanni frame, this bike has the decals used on your bike above. The Giovanni DBS bike was supplied to later professional rider Dag Erik Pedersen in the spring of 1977 and is a well documentet special here in Norway.
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torqueless
 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:06 pm 
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The number certainly squares with it being a Holdsworth. It should be drive-side front on the BB shell. (compare with the one in the link)

That is interesting, because your frame seems to have all the features of a somewhat earlier Holdsworth Pro- features that I think had been discontinued by '78: 'long' Campag. ends, full wrapover seatstays, fully sloping fork crown.

The combination of those features and that serial number might make your frame one of the last of the 'old style' Pros. The presence of all that '77 componentry might suggest the frame is '77 too.
Such frames are just what is needed to improve accuracy in putting dates to the numbers.

Compare yours to this 'new style' '78 one: https://hiveminer.com/Tags/holdsworth,p ... l/Timeline
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CBguy
PostPosted: Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:53 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:32 pm
Posts: 166
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
I agree with above comments, I don't think this is 1978 but rather a 1977 Pro. Long Campy rear dropouts, Cinelli style fork crown , full wrap over seat stays all place prior to 1978.

As per Kilgariff re changes for 1978 Pro: "The Pro now has the short Campy 1010B dropouts with only the faces chromed and a Vagner ETDL fork crown. 74o parallel angles and 39" wheelbase..."

In discussions with our serial master I've been lobbying :) for a shift of 6D numbers in prediction table so that frame such as this (008926) would indeed fall in 1977.

As Dave says he is presently modifying the graphs and prediction tables.

Doug
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dwscrimshaw
PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:44 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:52 am
Posts: 327
Location: Colchester, Essex
Thanks for info and could be another useful number with the frame ID points mentioned. it is the earliest DBS found so far. I will bare this in mind when looking at the the graph.
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