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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:11 pm 
Newbie

Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:30 pm
Posts: 3
Thanks for all the information on Holdsworth's frame numbering Doug. This really helps me with the age and model of my bike. It was handed down to me from my great uncle who spent many years cycling around Europe on this very bike. Sadly he's is no longer alive, so I've not been able to ask him where and when he bought the bike originally.

I'm of the opinion the bike has most of its original parts, some in better condition than than the others. I thought about changing the pRts in worst condition, but felt it would deter from the originality, so think I'll set about a clean up and maybe rebuild the wheels with new spokes.

Would love to know if the bike was pre the move to Oakfiled Road or made as one of the first in the new factory.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 9:19 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:10 pm
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Quote:
this would suggest that the 5 digit numbers did not continue much past time of move in mid 1975.

So is there any particular evidence that the 5-digit system survived the move at all?

I'm just assuming here, but presumably there might have been some half-finished frames that needed to be moved from old premises to new. There could have been a few 'crossover' frames that got built- and their (5-digit) serial number stamped- in the old factory, and then got painted (and an 'Oakfield Rd.' decal) at the new factory?

... just to pre-emptively scupper the notion that a bike with a 5-digit number and an Oakfield Rd. sticker is necessarily evidence that the 5-digit system did survive the move..


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:11 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:32 pm
Posts: 97
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
torqueless wrote:
Quote:
this would suggest that the 5 digit numbers did not continue much past time of move in mid 1975.

So is there any particular evidence that the 5-digit system survived the move at all?

Torqueless,

I agree, unclear whether 5D serial system survived the move.

To my thinking Cyclone 43295 is evidence that the 5D system stopped at time of the move in May 1975. Although Kilgariff states the Cyclone perhaps lasted in to 1976, it is not listed in the 1976 catalogue.

Re evidence to the contrary and that the 5D system went on past the move, there is a 1976 Pro frame with known 75deg angles that has late number 42981. (1976 was only year Pro had 75 deg angles) This would suggest that 5D numbers did continue past May 1975. However this could be explained by the fact that frames were often introduced and brought into production the year before they appeared in catalogues.

Doug


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:15 pm 
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Ah, that is what I was looking for. Unless I can think of an objection, that 75deg. '76 Pro qualifies as 'particular evidence', I guess. Boyley's machine is a little later number, so If the Pro is Oakfield Rd., logic suggests that Boyley's frame is, too.

Quote:
so I've not been able to ask him where and when he bought the bike originally.

Well, it has an 'Allin Cycles' (Croydon) sticker under the 531 one, so if he bought it new, either as a frame or as a complete machine, that is likely where. It'd be nice to preserve it as it is- It is a typical (and time-warp) mid-'70s workhorse/club runner/trainer. A 'do everything' bike. A proper enthusiast's bike from a proper bike shop... unavailable from Halfords. That Crane rear derailleur was the top-end Shimano offering at the time, soon to be re-named 'Dura-Ace'. Sugino Maxy was the ubiquitous budget (but perfectly useable) cotterless alloy crankset at a time when, outside of cycling clubs, most cranks were still steel with cotter pins. Come to think of it, the 'racer' I was riding in '76 was all steel- no alloy at all. :|


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:10 pm 
Old School Hero
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Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:52 am
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Location: Colchester, Essex
Interesting, when moving production lines now days with much lower inventory, planing stock levels is critical. I am not sure this would be true back in the 70's when companies didn't see stock as a waste of money. its clear from various threads that up to a years delay between build and sale was not uncommon and suggest high inventory levels.

Is it possible that the plan was for the new factory to start building frames with the 6D numbers for sale in 76 from may 75. The stock that would have been in the old factory would then be sold off during the last 6 months of 75 carrying 5D numbers? I am sure there would have been a period where frames from both systems would be being sold.

So this Cyclone would have been one of the last built in 75 and although dropped from the catalogue may not have been sold until early 76. This could also satisfy the comments on the 76 pros. If there are high 5D numbed frames with Oakfeild Road stickers may be they got finished and supplied from the new factory having been numbered earlier.

I guess we will never really know, but for charting purposes and trying to understand the numbers may be the number system and the factory change coincided?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 5:49 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:14 pm
Posts: 10
Is there a common location and orientation of the serial numbers on Holdsworth frames? I'm only asking as I have a nice mystery frame I'm trying to ID, it was orange so my first thought was possibly Holdsworth. No idea though, frame number is 13882 and it has Huret dropouts (with the Huret specific mech hanger).
Any ideas?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 8:34 am 
Old School Hero
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Location: Colchester, Essex
Yes there is some consistency in location and the style of numbering and if a Holdsworth that number would suggest early 50's. However the Orange frames came latter so best to try looking for other frame ID features first. If you can post some pictures there are many contributors to this forum who should be able to pin it down, then dating it is more meaningful. I'll let others comment on the Huret dropouts etc. as I am not convinced they were commonly used.

The main source of Holdsworth info is the link below under the model section. Looking to see if anything fits from the early 50's may be a good start.

http://www.nkilgariff.com/


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:01 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:14 pm
Posts: 10
Thanks, I put up some pictures the other day of the frame but no one seems to have any ideas. I only thought Holdsworth might be a possibility because of the orange, but there were no decals on it at all and the orange had been painted over with blue. Not sure what era the Huret dropouts were around so a bit of a stab in the dark!


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:08 am 
Old School Hero
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Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2015 10:52 am
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Location: Colchester, Essex
must have missed the post, is it earlier in this one or another thread?

For it to be a Holdsworth you need to compare the rear brake bridge and Lug work to the details on the history site and other pictures on the web. If you can't find a model that fit it's probably not a Holdsworth.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:18 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:14 pm
Posts: 10
Here's the link to the pics of the frame, there's lugwork on the brake bridge but not many clues!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/157053716 ... res/613t0v


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