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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:09 am 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:41 pm
Posts: 129
Location: Scotland :)
Hi Everyone, how are you all? I am giving some thought to my next restoration, this is a project which may not start for a while, I am still paying off my carbon bike and restoring my Falcon road bike. This is a Rudge Ulster sports, I got it in late 2014 and posted about it at the time, some of you reckoned it could be from the mid-late 1950s, it appears to be a badge engineered Raleigh Trent Sports, I have looked at it and my 1963 Raleigh Trent Tourist side by side and the frames are identical. This one has suffered attempts of a previous owner to turn it into a fixie, a rear wheel with a seized cassette has been fitted. The only original parts present are the frame, forks and crankset, so preserving originality is really not worth considering here. I have been thinking of doing a restomod, a few period correct upgrades as well as some newer ones, with the hope of creating an old looking bike with a few tricks up its sleeve. Here are some pictures of what I have to work with:

Image

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I am thinking of sticking with the original dark blue colour (or as close as I can find in Halfords). I can’t find reproduction decals but I believe I read something about H Lloyd cycles using your frame as a reference to create reproduction decals – I shall write to them. I am toying with the idea of gold pinstriping on the lugs? – would this be a nice touch or a bit tacky?

Image

Image

I think I shall use white celluloid mudguards like the ones on my 1963 Trent Tourist – I know where I can get some cheaply, or failing that I may be able to make replicas using my experience with fibreglass.

I want to go back to a Sturmey Archer set up (I have seen brochure pics and this was what it originally had). The question is, do I search high and low for a used hub with a hub date close to the frame number age, or do I splash out on a brand new Sturmey Archer and possibly a higher number of gears? (this would certainly be a nice upgrade) What kind of shifter should I go for? If I go for three speed I would probably opt for a classic trigger shift.

I was thinking of Aluminium rims – can anyone recommend an Aluminium rim that Sturmey Archer hubs could be built into? What diameter and thickness should I go for? What brand of tyre would be good here, I am swithering between whitewalls and tan walls. I read in Cycling Weekly about Mafac centrepull calipers, they said these came out in the 50s and still hold their own against modern brakes, would these fit? Could I make some adaptations to fit them? Are they good? Would it be sacrilege to the frame to fit these or sacrilege to the calipers to put them on this frame? I am thinking of this combination because I bought a beautiful 1981 Raleigh Record with Aluminium wheels and centrepull brakes and I am very impressed with how well she stops, I have never had a classic road bike stop this well.

I would like to fit a Brooks leather saddle but do I choose black or brown? And do I wrap the bars or put grips on them? I want the grips/tapes to be the same colour as the seat. My local bike shop sell lovely old school looking Japanese bicycle bells by a company called Crane, I have one on my Trent Tourist and think I shall put one on this. I have found a nice set of chrome drop bars, I am swithering between chrome or aluminium for the stem and seatpost.

If it is reusable I hope to get the original “Red hand of Ulster” crankset rechromed and use it, as this was a major selling point of the bike for me. If not I may need some suggestions for a crankset. While on this area what pedals do you think would look good on this?

Image

I am as yet undecided about lamps. If I can find one I might like to fit a mechanical speedo.

This is all I have thought about so far, any suggestions welcome, I am hoping with the experience gained from doing the Falcon I may not make as many mistakes this time :D

Thanks in advance
Mike


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:53 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:39 am
Posts: 640
What rear hub have you got there? Is there an oiler in the centre?Weinmann rim also? Sturmey 4 speed on any 40 hole rear rim could work. Are they 27" wheels? Not sure of Rudge spec but keeping it original or period upgrades would be good. Is there a catalogue available for research?

Simon


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:26 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:39 am
Posts: 640
Just looked at H Lloyds and not showing Ulster Sports transfers but worth asking if they've made any. Lug lining always looks good and gold with the blue will work. Mafac brakes need braze-on bosses for cantilever brakes, could be done by Argos or someone but not sure of the year your Rudge was made. Any serial number? Chainwheel looks superb! If the teeth are ok I hope it can be chromed.

Simon


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:32 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:22 pm
Posts: 1581
That looks like a bit of a mixed bag of bits!

Rear hub looks like an alloy 50s Normandy fixed/free and it's an alloy Weinmann rim from around that era.

Front fork looks like a late 30s / 40s BSA Sports fork. I think it's older than the frame.

Image

I thought Rudge stopped using that chainset when they went bust in 1938 but I could be wrong. They are quite common though, so come up for sale regularly.

Obviously saddle, bars and stem are much later.

It's a factory-built bike, not a handbuilt lightweight, and it's a bit of a mishmash of parts, so I wouldn't spend too much money on it. This is ideal for a greasy rag resto with some period-friendly parts. It'll be a bombproof old-timey bike which you can use and enjoy and not have to worry about. I think you're on the right track already - battered dark brown or black Brooks or Wrights saddle treated to plenty of Dubbin, canvas wrap on the bars, rat trap pedals and find a 32 or 36 hole front wheel with a matching Weinmann rim. I would probably run this one singlespeed or fixed.


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:07 pm 
rBoTM Winner
rBoTM Winner

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:54 am
Posts: 1323
Location: Derby
This may be a Raleigh built frame as they purchased the Rudge name .


Last edited by bagpuss on Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 5:56 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:07 pm
Posts: 1435
Location: Cotswolds
Clearly a very ordinary Raleigh frame with wrong forks. As above the Weinmann rims were never used on these. I could not see if the headset is 26 TPI raleigh or 24 TPI standard.
It has been known for the Rudge (Raleigh/Nicklin) chainwheel and crank to sell for far more than this bike is worth.

Keith


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 Post subject: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:38 pm 
rBoTM Winner
rBoTM Winner

Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 11:54 am
Posts: 1323
Location: Derby
I have a Rudge Nottingham head badge you can have for this {FOC} if you decide to refurb it .It will need reshaping to the headset but it is fine other wise .


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:37 am 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:41 pm
Posts: 129
Location: Scotland :)
COUPES wrote:
Just looked at H Lloyds and not showing Ulster Sports transfers but worth asking if they've made any. Lug lining always looks good and gold with the blue will work. Mafac brakes need braze-on bosses for cantilever brakes, could be done by Argos or someone but not sure of the year your Rudge was made. Any serial number? Chainwheel looks superb! If the teeth are ok I hope it can be chromed.

Simon


I'm not sure what rear hub is on there, it has a cassette on one side and a thread for a freewheel on the other side (flip-flop?) I didn't see any oil filler cap on the hub. I think I saw weinmann on the rear rim, the front wheel is a Raleigh Wheel. A member on here took photographs of pages of a catalogue relating to this bike, so I can see what original spec was if I decide to go down that route. I shall give H Lloyd a call when I have a moment. Thanks for the info on the Mafac brakes, my Raleigh Record has a hanger around the stem that keeps the cable in tension for its weinmann centrepulls, the rear does have a special structure on the frame though :/ There is a serial number, I shall investigate next time I am at home, it is the old style of frame number from before they did the frame number style present bikes of the Choppers, Grifter's etc era. I shall see what I can do about the chainwheel :) Thanks for your input :)

Jonny69 wrote:
That looks like a bit of a mixed bag of bits!

Rear hub looks like an alloy 50s Normandy fixed/free and it's an alloy Weinmann rim from around that era.

Front fork looks like a late 30s / 40s BSA Sports fork. I think it's older than the frame.

Image

I thought Rudge stopped using that chainset when they went bust in 1938 but I could be wrong. They are quite common though, so come up for sale regularly.

Obviously saddle, bars and stem are much later.

It's a factory-built bike, not a handbuilt lightweight, and it's a bit of a mishmash of parts, so I wouldn't spend too much money on it. This is ideal for a greasy rag resto with some period-friendly parts. It'll be a bombproof old-timey bike which you can use and enjoy and not have to worry about. I think you're on the right track already - battered dark brown or black Brooks or Wrights saddle treated to plenty of Dubbin, canvas wrap on the bars, rat trap pedals and find a 32 or 36 hole front wheel with a matching Weinmann rim. I would probably run this one singlespeed or fixed.


Many of the projects I have taken on seem to be mixed bags :/ I was told at the workshop that many people before me had fallen in love with this bike and tried to make something of it, and all had failed, I want to be the one to see it through to completion. Thanks for the info on the hub and forks, that is very interesting, are these BSA forks good? Or would it be worth my while sourcing a correct pair? Bearing in mind originality is not the be all and end all with this build.

In the brochure pics I have seen the bike did have that chainwheel. I have sourced a nice pair of used chrome bars in good condition, I may use the stem that is there or use it as a spare for my Falcon as it has the same stem but slightly damaged. I like your thinking, I may want to do it lavishly in a few years time, but maybe for the short term I will build it into something that goes. I am and have always been a Sturmey Archer man, but I may go for singlespeed/fixed in the short run to build up my legs for my next velodrome lesson. Thank you for your input :)

keithglos wrote:
Clearly a very ordinary Raleigh frame with wrong forks. As above the Weinmann rims were never used on these. I could not see if the headset is 26 TPI raleigh or 24 TPI standard.
It has been known for the Rudge (Raleigh/Nicklin) chainwheel and crank to sell for far more than this bike is worth.

Keith


I believe it is the same frame as my 1963 Raleigh Trent Tourist, I have looked at them side by side, geometry is the same, lugs are the same shape, same location for mounting gear pulley system, same recessed bit on the chain side rear dropout. Do you know if these forks would be considered an upgrade or a downgrade? I didn't know that about the chainring, it certainly is an interesting design :) Thanks for your input :)

bagpuss wrote:
I have a Rudge Nottingham head badge you can have for this {FOC} if you decide to refurb it .It will need reshaping to the headset but it is fine other wise .


I may well take you up on that, how much are you looking for for it? How does it attach to the frame? Thanks

Thank you all for your replies and my apologies for my late reply.


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:26 am 
Old School Hero
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:14 pm
Posts: 204
Location: Durham/Northumberland border
Thanks for the info on the hub and forks, that is very interesting, are these BSA forks good? Or would it be worth my while sourcing a correct pair? Bearing in mind originality is not the be all and end all with this build.

Rudge forks often had a distinctive chromed cap on sloping fork shoulders like this:

Attachment:
rudge forks 2.jpg
rudge forks 2.jpg [ 325.52 KiB | Viewed 604 times ]


The forks and cap can be found on eBay, but at a price :shock:

HW


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 Post subject: Re: Re:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:03 am 
Devout Dirtbag

Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:41 pm
Posts: 129
Location: Scotland :)
Hillwalker wrote:
Thanks for the info on the hub and forks, that is very interesting, are these BSA forks good? Or would it be worth my while sourcing a correct pair? Bearing in mind originality is not the be all and end all with this build.

Rudge forks often had a distinctive chromed cap on sloping fork shoulders like this:

Attachment:
rudge forks 2.jpg


The forks and cap can be found on eBay, but at a price :shock:

HW


Those are some beautiful forks :O thanks for sharing, I shall have a look, but may end up sticking with my BSA forks :)


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