Rudge Pathfinder? Year?

Hi everyone,
just registered to the forum - I am Rogier (living in Cambridge), dutch, bikenut. First post to the forum, I hope to post a lot more. I like the puzzle of a vintage bike: when was it built, what model, builder, etc...

I recently acquired this Rudge. A rustbucket, but I wanted to have the wheelset (SA FM) for another project. I fitted an old 26 x 1 1/4 flip flop wheel yesterday and gave it a spin. I really like it, so I might do it up as a fixie. The frame feels light, no real lightweight tho.

I am thinking it is a Rudge Pathfinder from 1951, I will try to add some pics for ID.
Reasons for Pathfinder: alloy 25.4 seatpost, but you can feel there is a sleeve in the seat tube. My 1948 Lenton Clubman also had a 25.4 seatpost and was definitely 531 (plain).
The dropouts and fishtailed lugs seem to match.
There is a brazeon under the top tube to attach a guide for the trigger cable.
Reasons for 1951: the braze on for the trigger cable mentioned above. The hubs are marked 50-10.

Why do I need confirmation?
The framenumber does not match the Raleigh convention #1 as it has a 6 digit number followed by a "R". Framenumber is 241289R
I do not see remains of a 531 decal.
I found the remnants of a decal on the down tube, I cannot find anything like it on the web. It looks original though. Does anyone recognise this decal, it looks like it has a viking or norman in the middle...

Any input, confirmation, help much appreciated.

Tia, Rogier

Great find and good luck!

Thanks, I guess @cyclingthelakes
Was a good day to be in the saddle
I am particular looking for info on the frame number and the decal on the down tube.
Cheers

Re:

Have you looked at the V-CC, Rudge -Whitworth catalogues? Some good information but can't help with dates.

Simon

Thanks Simon, VCC is one of my favourite sources for information. For Rudge Whitworth there is a gap between 1947 and 1954 - in flemish btw - good to be dutch

Peter Kohler has very useful info about the Raleigh Lenton on ipernity.com
The Pathfinders and Humber Clippers pre1950 were almost the same.

I am 90% sure it is a Pathfinder, but I expected it to have a Raleigh Nottingham frame number and the decals / transfers are a bit of a mystery.

Thanks, Rogier

Re:

Hi Rogier, that transfer looks like a Norman, Raleigh bought Norman in 1960 and Rudge in 47. I see Rudge did a Rambler for export that looks similar to yours, frame wise but earlier. I'm wondering if they are Raleigh serial numbers you have? Just a line to follow maybe?

Simon

Hi Simon,

It has a 50s Rudge headbadge, typical Rudge fork crown, looks like a Pathfinder - pls don't make it more complex than it is We had the same thought process though, cause I in to Norman too. However they used very different transfers on their road bikes and stamped framenumbers on the bottom head lug. This looks more like a viking's head.

A bit of history from TI (and Raleigh):
In 1953, Tube Investments acquired Norman as part of the Birmingham Cycle Combine which included brands such as Sun, Armstrong and Hercules. Raleigh, including Sun and Phillips, were also acquired by T.I. in 1960 who then focused all their bicycle interests in Raleigh.

Thanks again

Re:

I have a Sun! Real one though a 53 Manxman. Looked at a few Rudges but like you say nothing clear. Yeah Norman was different but got to mean something. Viking another great mark! I personally feel that Raleigh ruined it for cycling but saved the industry. A great shame so many were manufacturers were lost.
Good luck with the search.

Simon

Love the Manxman - the extra struts / triangle really make it a special frame. There was one up for grabs on ebay recently, too far for me Do you ride it fixed/free, hub gear, derailleur gear?

Not really fair to blame Raleigh to have ruined it for cycling - it was TI (Tube Investments) who already owned Accles & Pollock, Reynolds, Simplex, etc...
They are the ones who formed the British Cycle Corporation in 1953.
In 1960 Raleigh joined the TI group and was given control of the cycling division. Raleigh brought BSA in as well. Sturmey Archer was partly owned by Raleigh from the start. In 1962 Brooks was bought. I think by that time you could say TI controlled the whole supply chain.

On a lot of BSA, Raleigh, Hercules, etc... bikes from the 70s there is a decal on the bottom of the seat tube: TI - the Union Jack - made in England

Do you have the manxman in the gallery?

TA, Rogier

This is a Raleigh, badged like other raleighs with minor differences, nothing to do with Rudge Whitworth.
From what I remember Raleigh used the same 5/16 rear fork ends on all their brazed frames from late 30s to their demise, apart from those made in carlton works and specials, juneviles and small wheelers.

The Raleigh fixed/free rear hub was 5/16, the SA 7/16 but across the flats 5/16. This helped to stop the SA axle turning under torque load.
The octagonal head set was late 1948.

Keith