Period correct components for early 60s Soen

Senior Ryder

Retro Newbie
Hi folks,

I recently acquired a bike built by Bill Soens, a member of the Soens cycling family and one of the Merryside builders from Liverpool. Bill operated his shop under his father Eddie’s name because the senior Soens was a respected cycling trainer at the time. Beginning in 1957, Bill built about 800 frames over a 10 or 12 year period before closing the business and moving on to other ventures.

Bill has confirmed via serial number and design characteristics that the bike/frame is one of his and was built between ~1960 and 1964, but he does not remember the details of this particular bike. Most of the frames he built were for racing, track use or time trialing. The bike I have is unusual in that it has braze-ons for bar end shifters or, God forbid, stem shifters. Who produced barcons in the early 60s? Bill’s records have long since disappeared.

My question is, what would have been the component groups used by an English builder during this time period? Some of the Soens’ literature from this period indicates that Bill’s time trial and road bikes were built in a 1 X 5 configuration using early Compagnolo components and equipped with sew-ups. Although the paint is tatty, the frame is in good shape. Over the years, my bike has been changed and bastardized. Most of the drive train components have been replaced with low end Shimano units. The best parts are the wheels. They are decent Campag hubs laced to MA2 rims and run reasonably true.

I will be building this bike to ride (and it does ride efficiently and handles well). With this in mind, I’d like to get as close to period correct without breaking the bank.

Any and all information will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks and regards,

Van
 
van

this is where the fun starts , trying to source the right era parts of the right quality etc etc
 
Hello and welcome to the forum - especially if you have a Soens!. Have you seen this? -

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/bu ... ilder.html

If you've been in touch with Billy then you must already know a fair bit about the (sometimes) convoluted history of Liverpool frame builders! I would love to be able to write a definitive history as there were so many (often itinerant) builders.

Can you post a photo of your frame please? If it is a road race style frame then it would have had a 2 x 5 gear arrangement.

Regarding barend levers, the main ones in use were Campagnolo but Simplex also made a version (and possibly Huret?). You can still find them at cycle jumbles and I might have at least one in my 'stock'. Barends were popular with road racing lads at the time, I used them as in my avatar photo from 1965.

Here is a photo of me on my Eddie Soens in 1967.

It only seems like yesterday........................... :?
 

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Re: Soens Link

Hi Ned,

Thanks for the Soens link. I hadn't seen that information before. I haven't made personal contact with Bill Soens. My info came from Cyclechat.net dialogs between previous owners of frame #777 and Bill plus other online info. Apparently, Bill only participates periodically in these forums, but I'll keep trying. If you know a better way to contact him, I'd appreciate it.

I tried to attach a photo of the bike as I currently have it set up, but the site said it was too big and wouldn't accept a zipped file. I'll try to figure it out tomorrow. I really want to replace the drive train with something more period appropriate ASAP. My problem is that I live on the West Coast of the US and English parts are very rare. I took on this project because of my English ancestry and my love for old bikes.

Cheers and regards,

Van Pennington
 
Re: 1960's Period Components

I have some 1960's surplus components that have been acquired over the years that I'd be happy to sell for below eBay prices, Campag/Stronglight/Cinelli plus various wheels etc. do you have a list of bits that you need?

Griff
 
Re:

I have my Dad's Walvale (another Liverpool frame builder) which dates from around 1963. He built it up at the time for TTing & club riding with what he thought to be the best & lightest kit he could buy.

The original spec was:
Frame 531, campag ends etc.
GB Ventoux bars
Ambrosio Gran Prix stem
Campag record front changer with cable stop, shifted using Campag bar end shifter
Simplex Prestige rear mech, shifted using frame mounted Simplex lever
Stronglight 49 chainset
Campag record hubs, not sure of the rims, definitely sprint rims though.
Brooks B17 saddle
Mafac centre pulls with Universal levers.
Chater Lea pedals.

A good point he made (and that I've seen made elsewhere) is that people didn't fit complete groupsets from one manufacturer like we do now, they would pick and choose the best bits from each manufacturer. Also price may have been an issue, looking in old editions of Cycling Weekly from that time, a Stronglight 49D was 6 old pounds whereas Campag was 12 old pounds. And a months wages was about 66 pounds? Might be talking rubbish here, someone older might correct me about those figures as I was born post decimalisation!

The bar end shifters were pretty common in the 1960s, you can see them on pictures of Tom Simpson and also in some of the photos on this page http://spincyclemag.com/the-man-who-lov ... ll-bradley/ you can see Bill Bradley's bike with the front mech using a bar end shifter, rear shifter looks like it is frame mounted. So it is possible the regular "club-men" set up their bikes the same way, just like nowadays we all follow the trends of what the pros do :D In fact flicking back through the old Cycling Weeklys, it looks like many clubmen were riding & racing with bar end shifters until the late 60s.

Hope this helps.
 
Re: Re:

AlHodkinson":2czg8j4r said:
I have my Dad's Walvale (another Liverpool frame builder) which dates from around 1963. He built it up at the time for TTing & club riding with what he thought to be the best & lightest kit he could buy.

The original spec was:
Frame 531, campag ends etc.
GB Ventoux bars
Ambrosio Gran Prix stem
Campag record front changer with cable stop, shifted using Campag bar end shifter
Simplex Prestige rear mech, shifted using frame mounted Simplex lever
Stronglight 49 chainset
Campag record hubs, not sure of the rims, definitely sprint rims though.
Brooks B17 saddle
Mafac centre pulls with Universal levers.
Chater Lea pedals.

A good point he made (and that I've seen made elsewhere) is that people didn't fit complete groupsets from one manufacturer like we do now, they would pick and choose the best bits from each manufacturer. Also price may have been an issue, looking in old editions of Cycling Weekly from that time, a Stronglight 49D was 6 old pounds whereas Campag was 12 old pounds. And a months wages was about 66 pounds? Might be talking rubbish here, someone older might correct me about those figures as I was born post decimalisation!

The bar end shifters were pretty common in the 1960s, you can see them on pictures of Tom Simpson and also in some of the photos on this page http://spincyclemag.com/the-man-who-lov ... ll-bradley/ you can see Bill Bradley's bike with the front mech using a bar end shifter, rear shifter looks like it is frame mounted. So it is possible the regular "club-men" set up their bikes the same way, just like nowadays we all follow the trends of what the pros do :D In fact flicking back through the old Cycling Weeklys, it looks like many clubmen were riding & racing with bar end shifters until the late 60s.

Hope this helps.

That bike spec. virtually duplicates mine! You're right about no 'group sets'. People bought parts when they were needed and got the one they could afford. It didn't have to match any of the others! If a new frame was bought then more often than not all the bits from the old one were re-used.
 

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