Bike Seat Cluster Construction History

Greetings All,

I'm a newbie on here but not to the love of bikes. I've been working at home a lot recently and this allowed me to do a couple of restoration projects which I have thoroughly enjoyed. This was also promoted having read Rob Penns book. I'm not a diehard cyclist like friends who take part in triathlons and iron man comps, I'm a designer and its the history, architecture, grace and evolution of the bicycle that really seduces me. This has lead me onto the question I want to ask. I have searched the internet for the answer with no luck yet :? .

The seat cluster is a fascinating part of the bike, when did bike manufacturers stop bolted seat stays and move to fully welded clusters? Looking at many frames online I guess around the 30s but any other knowledge and input very welcome. Having restored an old Hercules which is numbered, but because records of numbers are sparse, this allows one to have an approximate age of the bike. Also on older Hercules (not sure about other makes) there are shoulders on the stays which later models don't have.

I've put a picture of my Hercules below, I believe its a Hercules Popular, any other ideas welcomed, its still work in progress

Cheers!

Re:

Hello,

First: The bolt up roadster frames with pressed (trapped) ends were a vastly cheaper way of making a "lookalike" frame. Originally the frames would have cast or forged ends brazed in, but still bolted at the seat cluster.

Bastide (Paris) in 1913 started the fully brazed frame. For old type components you might find a BSA frame components or Chater Lea catalogue.

In the 30s Hercules sold a single speed roadster for £3.19.6d
Your Hercules has the handlebar at least 2 inches too high.

The 28inch wheel models have bottom bracket height of around 12 inches, where a 26 inch wheel brazed frame would be 10.5, which allowed the rider to put a foot down when stopped. Also lower centre of gravity and better weight distribution helped the rider. Most of the 24 inch frames were too large for their riders.

Very few 28inch wheel bikes were sold after WW2 in UK, althouigh Raleigh went on exporting until their demise in 1979.

Keith

Hi Keith,

Wow, thanks for your reply, exactly the reason I joined the forum, to learn more about the bike/bikes. I say 'Wow' becasue you even noticed that I have the bars to high! Just before taking the photo I had the bars out and now have them sat in with the max line sitting about 1.5" above the head top, well done!

This is a 28" wheel bike, being 6' 4" it is good for my long limbs . As you say the bottom bracket is 12" from the ground, the frame size I have measured from crank centre to top of seat tube is 22", does this sound right?

So basically on the seat cluster construction it was a cost/mass production efficieny, makes sense. The ones on this bike as you say are flattened ends that come loose when the seat bolt is removed.

Is there any ryhme or reason to the head badges on the bikes. Mine has a coloured riveted head badge but looking at lots of Hs of various ages online there are stickers and riveted badges on old bikes, would these have been model relevant or other reason? perhaps considering some of the bikes are nearly 100 years old they will have been changed by restorers or enthusiasts over the years?

Thanks again.

Q

Re:

Something about this bike that makes me think more of modern far-eastern than Hercules 1930's.

A limit line on the handlebar stem is modern, but should not be visible, and the handlebar shape went out in UK before WW2. I don't see that saddle on a cheap uk roadster either, (from memory).

Head badges and head transfers have been around since late 19th century.

Keith

The handlebars are not oem, they are stamped 'Made in Japan', I am considering trying to get an older/original period pair and having them rechromed if necessary, but it's not urgent. The saddle is a Brooks B33 saddle and also definitely not the original, unfortunately I missed an old Hercules saddle on eBay last week, hey ho, I can wait. I imagine 50% of it is not original but it's still pleasing to look at if your not a purist.

Cheers,

Q