That old frame number problem again

Just finished the restoration of a lugless Claud Butler road frame and in order to get the correct decals for it I am trying to get confirmation of year of manufacture. From the build and parts on the frame I am led to believe it is just post war, maybe 1946/47. Unfortunately I cannot find any history regarding frame numbering. Is there any record keeping for the early Claud Butler frame numbers? This one is 646900, the forks thankfully bear the same number but with an 'X' suffix. Can anyone shed light on this.

from my limited knowledge of Claud's the date of build could be June 1946 and the letter suffix on the steerer usually identified which builder it was.....

Griff

Thanks RG, that was my assumption from the frame number with the sixth month and the year being the 46 part. Also the frame has pump pegs to the rear of the seat tube and frames with this addition as can been be seen from the Claud Butler brochures would be mid to late 40's manufacture. But who was the mysterious Mr. X the builder? Anyway I'm fairly happy being able to pinpoint the year and it would appear that the correct decals would be the Claud Butler script type decals which is what it's going to have. I shall post some pics when it's all done. I won't be riding it as it is a 23" frame and I'm only a little 20 1/2" frame size lad so it will be up for sale. I propose to outfit the Claud with GB Coureur brakes, Campag Valentino rear mech and a Cyclo front changer. Steel five pin cottered cranks with TA double rings, Airlite large flange hubs on Dunlop special lightweight rims, bars and stem from the old parts box and the classic Brooks B17. Just a nice period machine such as ridden back in the 40's/50's.
Here is a pic in it's 'as found' state.

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Hi, tricky this one, if the serial number is a Claud at this point in time ( pre 1950 ) the first digit is the year and the second/third ( oct,nov,dec ) is the month, but looking at the frame I would say late 40's at least, and then that leads to a question, is it a claud ( not saying it isnt - catalogues are only guides not bibles) as post war lugless clauds tended to have a simple collar to tighten the seat post, and I can't remember seeing one with that dropout - there is so much to go on with a lugless frame !!! Its a nice frame, i'll do some digging later and see what I can find. Terry

Hi Terry,
Yes I do know that Clauds of this time did have a collar to tighten the seat post. In fact the machine that I restored previously to this one was a road Claud which I changed to a fixed wheel machine after brazing on track ends and I dispensed with the seat tube clamp and brazed on small tubing sections onto the seat tube to take a stainless cap screw seat pin fastener. However this old boy does have the mudguard eyes up on the forks and a lamp boss and the fork lugs do look very much like the Claud ones. I know that immediately post war various frame building materials were sometimes in rather short and limited supply so maybe that would be reason for such variations. Anyway I've ordered the decals now so please don't tell me it's a Freddie Grubb. Here is the fixed wheel Claud I recently built.

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Hi, I won't dig too deep, don't forget claud may well ( pretty sure they did ) of supplied other shops with lugless frames, so even if its not, and I'm not saying it isn't, it may well of been build by claud. Good luck with the build. Terry

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In 1949 Campagnolo had the Paris-Roubaix gear, single lever back pedal change.

4 or 5 speed 3/32 chain Simplex T de F gear or "Osgear" Super Champion were available.

Keith