Help identifying old Claud Butler

Hi,

I've just inherited this old CB, which belonged to my grandfather. My mum tells me he used to ride it everywhere and in a fair few races. However, she also tells me he used to touch up the paint himself, which is why it looks a bit rough.

I'm pretty new to this and am keen to restore and use it if possible but would like to know what I'm dealing with first. I'm looking to date it and work out the exact model if possible.

Things that might help with this:

- The Sturmey Archer hub.
- The apparent lack of lugs.
- The Olympic badge on the front.
- Osgear dropouts (possibly)

Things that won't help with this:

- The rubbish seat that my dad put on it.
- The rubbish dynamo that my dad put on it.

Any advice anyone has would be greatly appreciated.


Pictures here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bry-z/set ... 369964005/

Re:

Hi, nice bike, the serial number on the underside of the bottom bracket will date it, at a guess 1948, it has pre war angles but the sturmey changer is post war, the badge is post war, and the burlite brakes ( very rare ) are post war. The model maybe difficult to find, as the catalog references at rare. Terry

Re:

Thanks Terry, I'll need to clean it up a bit before I can get to the serial number underneath. I'd just started researching the brakes so it's good to know they're rare as well. Hopefully, I'll get to the bottom of it.

Cheers,

Ian

Re: Re:

IKB5":133xb1c7 said:

Thanks Terry, I'll need to clean it up a bit before I can get to the serial number underneath. I'd just started researching the brakes so it's good to know they're rare as well. Hopefully, I'll get to the bottom of it.

Cheers,

Ian

Click to expand...

Just in case you haven't already stumbled on it, a useful link here, complete with scans of post-war CB brochures:

http://www.nkilgariff.com/ClaudButler.htm

1948-49 seems a good estimate given the lugless construction.

David

Re:

Thanks David, I have had a browse on there but it's difficult without narrowing it down to a specific year. Hopefully, I'll get a look at the serial number later and then I can check the appropriate brochure.

Was this period more likely to have lugless construction then?

Re: Re:

IKB5":33r1plrr said:

Thanks David, I have had a browse on there but it's difficult without narrowing it down to a specific year. Hopefully, I'll get a look at the serial number later and then I can check the appropriate brochure.

Was this period more likely to have lugless construction then?

Click to expand...

It seems that way, up to about the mid 50s at least - postwar metal shortages forced a move away from expensive steel lugsets to fillet brazing and bi-laminate (fillet brazing but in tandem with reinforcing sleeving) fabrication instead.

David

Re:

It may be a Massed start model .

Re:

That's potentially a good shout bagpuss. I hadn't looked at them and some of the details seem to match up. I'm guessing he probably selected the frame and then built it up with some non-standard components. Interesting.

Re:

Added a few more photos but they don't really answer any questions. Bottom bracket is painted over so can't get the serial number yet.

Will start stripping it down soon.

Re:

Early version of this I think.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/74418119@ ... 456892668/
Decide not to do this one . It went across the pond I think .
Pondering over a 1949 brochure at the moment .
CB did a Supreme Tourer with £ speed .Frame built with 531 . Can not tell from pictures if it was lugless .

Right ;
CB used a lugless head tube on quite a few of his frames .
this was low temperature welding . at made for nice clean lines . CB kept changing model names using the same lugs etc . I have one & it could be one of two models . Do not let a year or model name say yes . CB built a lot of specials .Truly one of the greatest frame builders ever .