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 Post subject: Headset cup removal
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:12 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:16 pm
Posts: 1568
Location: NOTTINGHAM
Another Saturday, another pain in the ar$e problem.

I've bought a headset press and a cup removal tool so I can do more fettling and building :D

The removal tool seems to be inherently flawed. Both top and bottom cups are in place but need to be removed. When I insert the removal tool the idea is that it springs out to meet to the inner walls of the headtube so that it can locate itself behind the cup - a few whacks and it should be out. However, as the other cup is still in place it doesn't allow the removal tool to spring back fully so it isn't locating flush behind the other cup I'm trying to remove - I think the main problem is that i'm dealing with a short headtube and hence there isn't sufficient distance to allow the tool to spring out fully? The other cup is limiting its operation if that makes sense.

Anyone had issues like this before?

Cheers...


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 Post subject: Re: Headset cup removal
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:19 am 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:41 pm
Posts: 8218
Location: Cumbria
Yep, some head tubes are short and the leaves can't unfold :( you can put a kink in the leaves but when you use it the leaves will bend at the kink :(

Some removers have very short leaves.

The above is one of the reasons we never used them BITD, all we used was a "drift" (rod of metal) but a big flat bladed screwdriver will do, as will a sawn off piece of steerer tube.


Shaun


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 Post subject: Re: Headset cup removal
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:23 am 
retrobike rider
retrobike rider

Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:24 am
Posts: 7561
Location: Manchester
Yes it's because you have a short headtube.
On mine I bent out the last 1cm of each leg slightly so that it is wider at the end.
This has always worked on my bikes, and it removed my supertight DeKerf headset.


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 Post subject: Re: Headset cup removal
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:30 am 
Old School Hero

Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2008 8:31 pm
Posts: 173
Quote:
The above is one of the reasons we never used them BITD, all we used was a "drift"



I love how some bang it with an ammer methods have a credibility once things get a proper name.
Cold forging is another


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 Post subject: Re: Headset cup removal
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 11:35 am 
Retro Guru

Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:16 pm
Posts: 1568
Location: NOTTINGHAM
Cheers chaps - i'll try bending the leaves out a fraction, if that doesn't work i'll cut down the length of the leaves - there's far too much for the length of headtube that this (or indeed most of my other bikes) has.

I've tried the big screwdriver, isn't budging it one bit unfortunately and the cups are in mint condition & don't want to spoil them. I just want to swap it onto another frame, purely to get a matching groupset - vanity is one hell of a curse with this bike lark!!


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 Post subject: Re: Headset cup removal
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:13 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:25 pm
Posts: 1784
Location: It's not easy being a dolphin.
I too put a small kink in the leaves then filled the ends to remove the sharp edges. A good trick is when installed, insert a piece of broom handle / cut-off steerer / cut-off seat-post / object of right diameter up into the removal tool to splay the leaves out more and stabilise it.

Out of reference, what tool and what head-tube length is it?


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 Post subject: Re: Headset cup removal
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:23 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:41 pm
Posts: 8218
Location: Cumbria
Woz...........Ah, that's a good idea to stop the tool ends bending :) would you put the broom handle, steerer etc through the cup you are trying to remove?

Shaun


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 Post subject: Re: Headset cup removal
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:27 pm 
retrobike rider
retrobike rider

Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:24 am
Posts: 7561
Location: Manchester
That's a good idea ^^

Hitting out something made of aluminium with something made of hardened steel over a small surface area that is a tight press fit is never a good idea. The proper tool is designed to spread the load over most of the headset surface. Used properly it should ensure the headset comes out straight as well, hammering a screwdriver twists headset making it tighter and that's how headtubes crack.

I have the Ice-Tools headset remover it cost something like £12 and the 1.1/8" version can be used on 1.1/4" as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Headset cup removal
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:39 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:25 pm
Posts: 1784
Location: It's not easy being a dolphin.
Midlife wrote:
Woz...........Ah, that's a good idea to stop the tool ends bending :) would you put the broom handle, steerer etc through the cup you are trying to remove?

Shaun


Yep. Works a treat - as you say you don't really want the leaves to bend under impact, just direct the force squarely over the cup surface and down.


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 Post subject: Re: Headset cup removal
PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:57 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:25 pm
Posts: 1784
Location: It's not easy being a dolphin.
Rampage wrote:
That's a good idea ^^

Hitting out something made of aluminium with something made of hardened steel over a small surface area that is a tight press fit is never a good idea. The proper tool is designed to spread the load over most of the headset surface. Used properly it should ensure the headset comes out straight as well, hammering a screwdriver twists headset making it tighter and that's how headtubes crack.

I have the Ice-Tools headset remover it cost something like £12 and the 1.1/8" version can be used on 1.1/4" as well.


Same here; I've got the Ice Toolz and have used it 1 1/8" and 1 1/4" successfully with head-tubes as small as 100mm.

Another top-tip which I have done is to cut a V-section in the very thick wooden work-bence and line it with rubber. I then place the frame down-tube or top-tube as close to the head-tube as possible in the V-section. This holds the frame properly and doesn't dent the tubes at all (even very thin AL) as the force is spread over a very large area. Usually, one or two sharp whacks with a hammer and the cups fly out.

I cringe when I see people trying to remove head-set cups with constant bashing when the bike frame is badly held in a bike stand by the seat-post.


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