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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:22 pm 
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Woz wrote:
Big Hinault fan here. He is totally right. He's arguably the last real champion. I've completely lost interest in modern road racing;
it's simply not exciting and more akin to modern F1 yawnfest. But I can sit and watch road races from around the 80s and 90s forever. Just something about the "grit your teeth" approach and always racing to win rather than being part of some laboratory techno assisted master plan remotely controlled by the manager.

Don't know how your French is, but this is truly marvelous: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33uQLQ1DA-I and lot's not forget
this epic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdjP4TFwDEc (when racing is so captivating like this who needs cares about HD!)

EDIT: Not detracting from Wiggo, Froome, Cavendish but ..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HOtPQFyoCY


Thanks for the first link
il plunged me 30 years ago, admiring this french champion
( with an exceptionnal heart - hearbeat below 40 at rest 34 minimum / 195 max and VO2 max above 90 !)


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:12 pm 
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I agree with his sentiments and if I'm not mistaken he's not the first person to make comments along those lines - Merckx rode as hard as he could all year round. I'm not sure Hinault ever swung a leg over a bike without riding as hard as he could. So compared with the modern strategic approach of teams focusing on a specific race, irrespective of the prestige and prize-money, the old greats will always have the edge over the modern ones.

Slaying The Badger by Richard Moore is a worthwhile read for Hinaultphiles looking for juicy competitive anecdotes. I don't believe he really feels any particular way about Brits winning - any rider other than him is sub-standard! Look at the "difficult" relationship with Lemond. :shock:


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:00 am 
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I would say that the distinction between before Hinault and after is a bit misleading. I think it's more accurate to say that the 1980's were a particularly vibrant and exciting period for cycling. There were several solid contenders for the big races (Hinault, Lemond, Fignon, Roche etc), each with strong personalities, personal rivalries and very different approaches to cycling. I think all that made that period unique, both before and since. I was too young to really appreciate it then, but as pointed out, Slaying the Badger is a great description of the period.

Remember that people also made complaints about the domination of people like Merckx and Anquetil making cycling dull at the time.

I think the biggest problem is not so much the scientific approaches of the teams as the media management of the riders, maybe there are still some big, interesting personalities still in there but they are so trained and choreographed that the human drama of rivalries, anger, defeat, and victory is lost.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:35 am 
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Old Ned wrote:
John wrote:
the days of smashing out 300 races a year and being competetive in those are done.[/quote

I wonder why?

Perhaps something to do with understanding HOW riders remained competitive for 300 races?


Are you suggesting that The Badger et al did something untoward to remain competitive for the whole season ? :)


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:51 am 
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Johnsqual wrote:

I think the biggest problem is not so much the scientific approaches of the teams as the media management of the riders, maybe there are still some big, interesting personalities still in there but they are so trained and choreographed that the human drama of rivalries, anger, defeat, and victory is lost.


I know this was not the original idea of the post but I would like to pick up the 'media management' point. Went to watch the time trial at the Eneco Tour Of Belgium. All the teams had there riders warming up where they were in public view...................except Sky who did not want you to see Bradley. Hardly endearing themselves to cycling fans. You may call me a bit bad..........picture taken from within a bush. I should go join the paparazzi!

Image

And yes. There are people standing at the other end but Bradley was tucked in the far corner at the end of the bus. With 'two body gaurds'.

Cannondale warming up. And whilst doing so they were even happy to have there pictures taken with you.

Image


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:22 am 
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Johnsqual wrote:
maybe there are still some big, interesting personalities still in there but they are so trained and choreographed that the human drama of rivalries, anger, defeat, and victory is lost.

except for Cav .. elation, anger, emotion, passion ... a proper human, great guy


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:27 am 
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pigman wrote:
Johnsqual wrote:
maybe there are still some big, interesting personalities still in there but they are so trained and choreographed that the human drama of rivalries, anger, defeat, and victory is lost.

except for Cav .. elation, anger, emotion, passion ... a proper human, great guy


+1, one of the few whose character is strong enough to shine through all the bullshit...


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:23 am 
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Chris D wrote:
Johnsqual wrote:

I think the biggest problem is not so much the scientific approaches of the teams as the media management of the riders, maybe there are still some big, interesting personalities still in there but they are so trained and choreographed that the human drama of rivalries, anger, defeat, and victory is lost.

I know this was not the original idea of the post but I would like to pick up the 'media management' point. Went to watch the time trial at the Eneco Tour Of Belgium. All the teams had there riders warming up where they were in public view...................except Sky who did not want you to see Bradley. Hardly endearing themselves to cycling fans. You may call me a bit bad..........picture taken from within a bush. I should go join the paparazzi!
And yes. There are people standing at the other end but Bradley was tucked in the far corner at the end of the bus. With 'two body gaurds'.
Cannondale warming up. And whilst doing so they were even happy to have there pictures taken with you.]


Thread is developing with some interesting views. Personally I have little respect for Team Sky and Sir Bradley, not so much a lack of respect for the achievements, but a lack of respect for the man. Before his TdF victory and London 2012, he was very vocal in saying he did not want to become a celebrity...clearly hubris rather than humility rules his personality along with his (bad) attitude toward the media and therefore fans.

And despite being a fan of the Tour de France since 1984 (my first of many trips to France to see it), I find I am increasingly drawn to the (slightly) more parochial Vuelta.

My comment about the Team Sky Death Star, that refers to the Team Sky bus - journalists have awarded it that nickname!

Rk.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:30 am 
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roadking wrote:

And despite being a fan of the Tour de France since 1984 (my first of many trips to France to see it), I find I am increasingly drawn to the (slightly) more parochial Vuelta.

Rk.


This year's Giro also made for more interesting watching than the Tour. Nibali is one of the recently emerging riders who is exciting to watch. His attempt to defend his lead in Liege-Bastogne-Liege a couple of years ago was a real thriller.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:55 pm 
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Woz wrote:
Big Hinault fan here. He is totally right. He's arguably the last real champion. I've completely lost interest in modern road racing;
it's simply not exciting and more akin to modern F1 yawnfest. But I can sit and watch road races from around the 80s and 90s forever. Just something about the "grit your teeth" approach and always racing to win rather than being part of some laboratory techno assisted master plan remotely controlled by the manager.


i couldn't have written that reply any better myself! yes, modern cycling's a total snooze in comparison to those amazing decades in the past where many top riders were right up there in the midst of the action. i can't consider the likes of the two past tdf winners as riders who will go down in cycling history as something remarkable, more a one-off in the sea of others out there these days - ie instantly forgettable in my book. i don't see the same sense of bravery and adventure as we did in the good old days..god, i'm sounding old now!! :?

i was watching the 1989 tdf the other week and was absolutely spellbound watching fignon in full flight tearing the legs off of lemond, delgado and theuneusse....another great moment in cycling history and absolutely magical to watch. this is what keeps me going - not a zzzZ in sight....

anyway, take it away, chaps...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grjXP1lkOjI

8)


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