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 Post subject: Harry Quinn?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:14 am 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:45 pm
Posts: 13
Hi

I have recently been given an old frame. It has been repainted with no decals, but I have a photograph of it pre-painting which shows Harry Quinn decals on the seat tube and top tube, and what are probably Reynolds decals near to the top of the forks and near to the top of the seat tube. I've no reason to think that it's not a Harry Quinn, but as yet I haven't managed to find a frame number (it doesn't seem to be on the bottom bracket). I really don't know how old it is, but it just looks old to me.

However there are a number of unusual features (or at least they are unusual to me) which might help date or identify the frame.

There is a disk (approximately 12mm diameter) on the down tube in the approximate position of the gear shift levers. Any ideas what this is?

The chain-stays are both indented on the inside face and the drive side chain-stay is indented on the outside - presumably to increase clearances?

The brake bridge and the bridge near the bottom bracket are not made from tube, they just seem to be rolled plate. Is this common?

There are small holes near to the top and bottom of the chain and seat stays. Are they vent holes?

There are three cable guides on the top tube and a single derallier cable stop on the chain-stay. My other, late 1960s, bike has other braze-ons near to the bottom bracket. Is there something missing to route the gear cable(s)?

Any info would be much appreciated. I've attached some photos to illustrate.

Thanks

P


Attachments:
File comment: Seat stay and brake bridge
IMG_6039.JPG
IMG_6039.JPG [ 157.6 KiB | Viewed 542 times ]
File comment: Vent holes
IMG_6038.JPG
IMG_6038.JPG [ 163.04 KiB | Viewed 542 times ]
File comment: Bridge not tube
IMG_6037.JPG
IMG_6037.JPG [ 173.12 KiB | Viewed 542 times ]
File comment: Indents to chain stays
IMG_6036.JPG
IMG_6036.JPG [ 214.07 KiB | Viewed 542 times ]
File comment: Disc on down tube
IMG_6035.JPG
IMG_6035.JPG [ 163.97 KiB | Viewed 542 times ]
File comment: Frame
IMG_6034.JPG
IMG_6034.JPG [ 200.98 KiB | Viewed 542 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Harry Quinn?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:35 am 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:08 pm
Posts: 2185
Location: Shrewsbury
The disk on the downtube is the location point for band on type gear levers, sometimes they are under the tube. The gear cable guides around the bottom bracket and at the rear of the chainstay will also have been for the band on type.

If its a Harry Quinn frame they would be a serial number under the bottom bracket beginning with Q. The Q is also quite distinctive as it was struck as an 'O', then struck with an 'I' to form the tail. The paint looks quite thick so it maybe obscured. However, even without the frame number the rolled tube bridges don't have the look of Harry's quality building. I'd say it could be 60s early 70s frame, but it doesn't look like one of Harry's.


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 Post subject: Re: Harry Quinn?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:17 pm 
rider | rBoTM Winner
rider | rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:42 pm
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Location: Wakefield, Yorkshire
One of the problems is that when Frank Clements owned the brand in the early 80's all sorts of frames were branded 'Harry Quinn' from 753 to gas-pipe (mostly the latter!). If it IS an HQ then more likely one of Frank's - but the number will tell us (if there is one!). Numbers Q5*** are often Franks' ones.

I can't see Harry using bridges like that although the lugs and dropouts look reasonable.

EDIT - in retrospect, FC may not have supplied 753 but definitely 531.


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 Post subject: Re: Harry Quinn?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:05 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:53 am
Posts: 93
Location: Merseyside
I own a Liverpool made Quinn, and have seen enough Liverpool frames to know that he'd not use bridges like those in your photos.

As per Old Ned, it could be one of the later Clements frames. Can you post up the pre-respray photo?


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 Post subject: Re: Harry Quinn?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:02 pm 
Retro Guru

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:07 pm
Posts: 1321
Location: Cotswolds
A very cheaply mass produced frame.
Crimped chainstays were rarely used by quality builders.
And those very cheap and poorly finished bridges?
Gas holes also rarely needed by small builders,


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 Post subject: Re: Harry Quinn?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:50 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:08 pm
Posts: 2185
Location: Shrewsbury
Old Ned wrote:
One of the problems is that when Frank Clements owned the brand in the early 80's all sorts of frames were branded 'Harry Quinn' from 753 to gas-pipe (mostly the latter!). If it IS an HQ then more likely one of Frank's - but the number will tell us (if there is one!). Numbers Q5*** are often Franks' ones.

I can't see Harry using bridges like that although the lugs and dropouts look reasonable.

EDIT - in retrospect, FC may not have supplied 753 but definitely 531.


I remember Frank having a big push in the cycling press for your chance to own one of the final production Harry Quinn frames! A friend of mine has one still wrapped in its delivery packaging, unfortunately, he thinks he is sat on a small fortune and I haven't got the heart to tell him it will be a cheapo far eastern import! I know from another tandem racing friend who had all his bikes built by Harry both in Liverpool and Tenby, that Harry wasn't at all happy about what Clements did to the Quinn brand.


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 Post subject: Re: Harry Quinn?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:53 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:45 pm
Posts: 13
In reply to "Dirt Disciple" I've attached a photo of the bike pre paint job. It's not a very good picture (it's a scan of an old photograph), but you can make out the Harry Quinn decals plus what I am told are Reynolds 531 decals. Don't take too much notice of the other components as the bike may have been put together from bits from the shed.

I removed some paint and so far haven't found a frame number, but the front dropouts are stamped GIPIEMME. If it's relevant, the frame weighs about 5.0lbs (about 2.25kg) and the forks a further 1.75lbs (about .81kg).

Not sure whether any of the above makes much difference to the earlier comments, but any further comments would be appreciated.

Also can anyone explain exactly what the disc on the top of the downtube is for (see earlier photo)? I understand it's to do with clamp-on levers, but don't understand why or how. I've looked on the net but haven't found any examples.

Thanks


Attachments:
Harry Quinn_4.jpg
Harry Quinn_4.jpg [ 90.15 KiB | Viewed 387 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Harry Quinn?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:03 am 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:41 pm
Posts: 8226
Location: Cumbria
Frames often had some sort of "stop" brazed on the frame to prevent the band of the shifters moving downwards.........usually a small triangle under or on top of the frame....

http://starostneradost.files.wordpress. ... retrfr.jpg

could be any shape though.

Shaun


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 Post subject: Re: Harry Quinn?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:21 am 
r.B.o.T.M. & P.o.T.M. Winner
r.B.o.T.M. & P.o.T.M. Winner
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Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:51 am
Posts: 2209
Location: Camel Land
keithglos wrote:
A very cheaply mass produced frame.
Crimped chainstays were rarely used by quality builders.
And those very cheap and poorly finished bridges?
Gas holes also rarely needed by small builders,


Totally agree as no specialist framebuilder would be brazing bridges this bad!!!


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