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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:07 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:45 pm
Posts: 13
This is a follow up to an earlier post:

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=262628

I've been trying to identify a frame without 100% success so far. The frame resembles a Holdsworth, but I'm not sure. I bought the frame second hand in the late 1970s. It's geometry resembles a Holdsworth Mistral, has wrap over seat stays, Campagnolo dropouts and chromed fork and stay ends - but many frames seem to match this description. It has matching frame numbers (33156) and a second number (126) on both the bottom bracket and the forks. A few questions:

If it is a Holdsworth, what year would the number 33156 refer to?

If it is a Holdsworth brand, would Claude Butler, Freddie Grubbs etc have similar frame numbers, or would theirs follow a different pattern?

Which other frame manufacturers of a similar age used similar frame numbers, ie 5 digit, with no prefix or suffix?

What is the relevance of the second number? I've seen references to batch numbers, casting numbers or maker numbers.

Any help would be appreciated to try and narrow the search.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:46 pm 
Old School Grand Master
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Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:41 pm
Posts: 8226
Location: Cumbria
Could be an old Falcon San Remo?

Shaun


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:55 am 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:41 pm
Posts: 417
Location: Moneyscalp N.Ireland
have you checked on Nick Kilgariff's website for comparison?
<< http://www.nkilgariff.com/ >>


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:53 am 
rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:48 pm
Posts: 455
Location: N. Herts
Hi, the Holdsworth numbering is sort of okay to understand, but I don't pretend to be an expert. The numbers are sequenced from the start of the business, the earliest I've seen is in the 3000's which is mid Thirties, the Holdsworth bikes kept this system, until the mid seventies when it stopped, the issue is the last ten years of this time, when the shop split away from production I believe the numbering continued but with the some exceptions i.e. some of the Professional frames, but generally the exceptions all tie into the Shop side ( which sold a mixture of custom orders and off the shelf frames from the factory just to confuse things). As a generalisation I believe the numbering can still be used up to the mid seventies, hence the educated guesses you've received. After the mid seventies I believe they had a zero prefixing the number, and I'm not sure of what the numbers mean. The numbering before this does nearly work out, as during the sixties and seventies, I believe the Claud Butler brand was the big market seller for Holdsworth, with Holdsworth sales only taking a small percentage.
Would it be possible to have a good close up photo of the serial number on the bottom bracket, and I can then check against my Mistral, just to see if the stamping is the same. Terry


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:43 pm 
Retro Guru
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Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:21 pm
Posts: 589
Mine is 27250 and is a 1960 Hurricane (although I believe it was a special order built by Reg Collard, as it differs from stock).

It also has a second S/N: 401, which may be Reg's own S/N.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 5:39 pm 
Dirt Disciple

Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:45 pm
Posts: 13
Many thanks for the replies, and for OldTel I've attached are a couple of pictures of the bottom bracket and a couple of the fork steering tube. The numbers are about 6mm high and are much neater and clearer on the fork compared to the bottom bracket.

Cheers


Attachments:
IMG_6026.JPG
IMG_6026.JPG [ 182.26 KiB | Viewed 332 times ]
IMG_6025.JPG
IMG_6025.JPG [ 170.78 KiB | Viewed 332 times ]
IMG_6030.JPG
IMG_6030.JPG [ 172.65 KiB | Viewed 332 times ]
IMG_6033.JPG
IMG_6033.JPG [ 161.32 KiB | Viewed 332 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:23 am 
rBoTM Winner
rBoTM Winner
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Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:48 pm
Posts: 455
Location: N. Herts
Hi, as you can see from below the stampings are in the same area, the number on this one is 40611, which I think is 1972/3, the colour dates my one any way. Also I toke a piccie of my narrower type stay, for your reference. You never going to be absolutely 100% without the old decals, paint or receipt, so its your call.


Attachments:
holdsworth stays.jpg
holdsworth stays.jpg [ 39.47 KiB | Viewed 315 times ]
P1010832.JPG
P1010832.JPG [ 77.3 KiB | Viewed 315 times ]
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:39 pm 
Newbie

Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:10 am
Posts: 4
I have a Holdsworth mistral frame no 022528( under bb) which is a 1980 model


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